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Two hundred-millionaires attack Obama for being out of touch
trainwreckpolitics.com — The irony about all the “outrage” that’s being manufactured over Barack Obama's small-town Pennsylvania statement is that it’s coming exclusively from out-of-touch rich people like John McCain and Hillary Clinton, who are making the assumption that this is something small-town Pennsylvanians should be offended by.
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- ZenaTWQ, on 05/05/2008, -83/+35I have family and friends in small town PA who are very offended. A friend (who is a small business owner in small town PA) did an informal survey in two local restaurants, she found the majority of the people she asked were extremely offended. None of which are close to being a 'millionaire' or 'out of touch rich people...'
- Ajajadude, on 04/13/2008, -16/+44If they're offended by that then they really are bitter and out-of-touch and should probably seek counseling. It wasn't exactly the best thing he could have said, but it certainly wasn't the worst thing that could have been said. What's there to be extremely offended about? Honestly?
- ZenaTWQ, on 05/05/2008, -30/+14Honestly...it isn't just what he said. But, when you think about what he said and add it together with the other issues he has had, it paints a picture. No they are not bitter, nor do they need counseling...they are happy people who want to maintain what they have.
- Joshuarr, on 04/13/2008, -11/+37You're retarded. Most of my family lives in PA, and yes, they absolutely are bitter and downtrodden. And all of them that I've discussed this with are actually excited that someone actually understands what they're going through. They don't need counseling, they don't need a 600 dollar stimulus check, they don't even need a new fixed rate mortgage. But they do need something to look forward to.
- ZenaTWQ, on 05/05/2008, -29/+11It's great to live in a free country where we can all have our opinions. If yours is looking forward to socialism, or worse, that is your prerogative. But I won't lower myself to calling you names, I don't carry that kind of hatred or insecurity with me.
- Edrick, on 04/13/2008, -9/+41If Obama's your idea of a socialist then I'd hate to see what you'd say if you met...well...an actual socialist.
- Joshuarr, on 04/13/2008, -9/+5I wasn't calling you names, I was rationalizing your statements.
- johnny2k, on 04/13/2008, -16/+8In my friend Tonto's defense, I have decided to re-submit a comment I wrote to Joshuarr further on down the comments:
"And we can certainly tell how intelligent you are, Joshuarr... or at least how intelligent you THINK you are..... And I'm sure you will spend your entire summer anticipating the great fun you will have going on to 6th grade next fall! Woohoo! Be sure to let us know how that goes!"
Well, Joshuarr, I usually don't write snide comments like that to people, and I apologize. I really want you to know that I am very sorry for your bitterness, Josh. I mean, it would have to really make you BITTER because of the No Child Left Behind education system. I am really hoping that this 3rd year you are spending in 5th grade works out better for you. I am sure if you would refrain from calling your teachers stupid or retarded, you would have a much better chance to make it to 6th grade next year! Go, man, go! You can do it! - JoeVet, on 04/13/2008, -6/+10@Tonto is obviously a GOP faithful who would never vote outside of his party no matter who ran. Given his last statement he has closed his mind to everything for which Obama stands simply because of his political party. This is how we got GW and why hate mongers like Rush Limbaugh rule the air waves.
- Blandyman, on 04/13/2008, -7/+6Tonto10:
Your name suits you, moron.
(Tonto is Spanish for retard.) - Fordi, on 04/13/2008, -2/+8I like the people here who are bitching that you're being socialist - despite the fact that you're referring more to Obama's promise to change the way DC politics works in reference to corporate welfare and lobbying, yet they don't understand that Bush's $600 'stimulus package' is rather the definition of a socialist moment.
They also don't understand that, yet, people in PA - hell, people the nation around are bitter about the US Government. It sucks that it's nigh impossible to get a rational voice heard. It's crap that we have stupid, nonsensical laws on the books. It's absolutely devastating that it's damn near insurmountable for many post-steel and other post-industry towns in PA to recover and regain the level of greatness they once had.
We're trying. Some have had success (Pottstown, Pittsburgh). Some are still failing (Reading). Some suffer from high taxes, high prices, and local corruption (Philadelphia). Overall, yes, we're resilient, optimistic, and hopeful, but we're still annoyed at our would-be authority in DC for essentially telling us about how things will get better - yet lifting not a legislative finger to help us out.
Meanwhile, though I hate that our state is slowly grinding mountains to dust, Obama's position on liquid coal is a help to him.
Really, though, I believe that PA's wide geographically based reliance on monoindustry has been a terrible harm to us as we burn through our resources. Half the reason we were as successful as we were in steel and in brickmaking was that we rape our own land so efficiently. Once we run out of one resource, it takes ages for us to hop onto a new one and rebuild the prosperity of our towns - but that's my opinion, and not one that should carry any weight so far as policies concerning PA's industry goes. - Pritchard, on 04/13/2008, -3/+3I'm not too pleased with the responses this guy's being given.
I don't think anyone should really be happy with this country at the moment. I wouldn't say I'm bitter though. I still see so much hope ahead, and that's why I'm not bitter even though I've been treated like crap by the government before.
I don't support Obama - I'm a libertarian/old republican at heart, so Ron Paul's my man this election. Thomas Jefferson had the right idea on government, me thinks. I do believe Obama's statements can be justified, but coming to his defense and disregarding the opinions of individuals simply speaking their mind isn't the best action to take right now. Should go something against what Obama's been preaching, anyways... - DEIx15x8, on 04/13/2008, -3/+2Do you realize that Obama's plan for economic stimulation is another check?
- Argentian, on 04/13/2008, -3/+2Two heroes you need to read above, if you've missed them: Tonto10 and johnny2k. Way to go, folks.
As for Joshuarr's comment, there is little to say that hasn't already been skewered. Do all of your family decide to flock to religion or guns because they feel so bitter, as your man BO says? He is poison for this country.
- slezzzter, on 04/13/2008, -14/+11Precisely. I am from rural Pennsylvania. The political stance is far more libertarian or old school conservative than liberal. I can't speak for everyone, but I can speak to the sentiment of my family and friends. We don't want government handouts and we don't want our daily lives controlled. We are limited-government, non-interventionists (a result of our Amish/Mennonite rooted values). We don't want political pity. We are not bitter that the government hasn't provided new manufacturing jobs to us, we don't expect them. We are bitter that politicians pretend to understand our situation with these absurd generalizations. We haven't had a presidential candidate pay attention to us in years (Pittsburgh and Philly pretty much decide the electoral votes). Now that they do give us attention, they treat us as ignorant isolationist racists who just need a savior in the White House. I would be equally outraged if any candidate made this remark, so don't think this is anti-Obama. In fact, given his background, I would think Obama would be the last person to make such an elitist comment.
- petrodollar, on 04/13/2008, -4/+10"they treat us as ignorant isolationist racists"
Well, to be fair, it isn't a wholly inaccurate description. - dan222555, on 04/13/2008, -3/+5^^^It's no wonder the Diggers don't recognize elitism when they see it
- Argentian, on 04/13/2008, -2/+1Given Obama's background (rich private prep school, Ivy League school, living high on the hog, although he and Michelle could barely make it on only a couple of hundred thousand a year), I don't think he really has the foggiest idea what the average American believes. He does know what the average black, racist, segregationist preacher or politician believes, but not the majority of Americans.
- petrodollar, on 04/13/2008, -4/+10"they treat us as ignorant isolationist racists"
- Argentian, on 04/13/2008, -2/+1Touche' , Tonto10. Well reasoned with just the right amount of passion.
- Joshuarr, on 04/13/2008, -11/+37You're retarded. Most of my family lives in PA, and yes, they absolutely are bitter and downtrodden. And all of them that I've discussed this with are actually excited that someone actually understands what they're going through. They don't need counseling, they don't need a 600 dollar stimulus check, they don't even need a new fixed rate mortgage. But they do need something to look forward to.
- dan222555, on 04/13/2008, -5/+2"If they're offended by that then they really are bitter and out-of-touch and should probably seek counseling."
If anyone was ever wondering what elitism sounding like, this is it...- Ajajadude, on 04/13/2008, -1/+2Yes...I'm an elitist. If you knew anything about me, that thought would never have crossed your mind.
- dan222555, on 04/13/2008, -3/+2And an Obama supporter as well. Coincidence?
- Ajajadude, on 04/14/2008, -1/+2I WAS all for Clinton until late last year when it became apparent she was about as capable of leading this country as Bush is. I used to love McCain, but his recent turn to the dark side of politics (extremism) for the sake of the Republican nomination turned me off of him. Obama has been the only one who has been consistent with what he's said throughout this whole thing and the only one out of the 3 big candidates that doesn't scare the ***** out of me.
And if you think I'm an elitist, you'd better go look the word up in a dictionary before you make yourself sound even more like an ignorant moron. If I'm an elitist, then I'm a pretty pathetic one. - dan222555, on 04/14/2008, -1/+1It's not elitist to call people "bitter and out-of-touch" for being offended by a comment someone made? Please...anyone who dares to tell people "you shouldn't be offended by that!" is just screaming elitist.
- Ajajadude, on 04/13/2008, -1/+2Yes...I'm an elitist. If you knew anything about me, that thought would never have crossed your mind.
- ZenaTWQ, on 05/05/2008, -30/+14Honestly...it isn't just what he said. But, when you think about what he said and add it together with the other issues he has had, it paints a picture. No they are not bitter, nor do they need counseling...they are happy people who want to maintain what they have.
- smacksaw, on 04/13/2008, -12/+21They were offended because they were looking for an excuse to be offended.
I'm a huge Pittsburgh Steelers fan, and for years I have watched the games with the Black and Gold Brigade. When it's not a Steelers game, I often watched games in Eagles bars.
Those are the most easily offended fans in Football, save maybe the Browns fans. It's like looking for a fight or an argument.- ZenaTWQ, on 05/05/2008, -18/+6Wow, quite a knack at reading the minds of people you don't even know.
- smacksaw, on 04/13/2008, -4/+13Considering I've sat with these people for years who have been forced to leave the PA area, you're pretty stupid to think I don't know them or their stories or that we actually talk.
- Ajajadude, on 04/14/2008, -0/+2You haven't seen the latest polls coming out of Pennsylvania, have you?
- Pritchard, on 04/13/2008, -0/+2I believe you should know this - The Browns have THE most easily-offended fans in all of football. I am from Cleveland. I was told to leave the house after joking I was not a fan of the Browns before. Even people who are not football fans here would root for the Browns. It's just a mob mentality. Something the people here hold onto for no reason whatsoever other than to band together.
- Argentian, on 04/13/2008, -0/+0Woof, woof...
- smoothdogg00, on 04/13/2008, -0/+2Great job staying on topic!
- AngryIrishMan12, on 04/13/2008, -1/+0relevant?
- Argentian, on 04/13/2008, -0/+0Who cares?
- Ajajadude, on 04/14/2008, -0/+2example?
- mydigga, on 04/13/2008, -0/+2As a Brown's fan I am deeply offended by your comment. Elitist!
- ZenaTWQ, on 05/05/2008, -18/+6Wow, quite a knack at reading the minds of people you don't even know.
- iainc, on 04/13/2008, -3/+7Well, I suppose if you really look hard enough, you'll find someone with an axe to grind.
- chris9902, on 04/13/2008, -1/+12So they're bitter about the whole thing?
- robthom, on 04/13/2008, -1/+5Hehe.
- robthom, on 04/13/2008, -6/+7Lol @ "Tonto".
- Pedestrian101, on 04/13/2008, -17/+14All these negative diggs show how "Out of touch" these people on digg are. Blinded by their love for Obama.
- lamiaconfitor, on 04/13/2008, -2/+12he said gently caressing his gun and bible.
- Joshuarr, on 04/13/2008, -4/+3Yeah, we're ALL elitists...
- dan222555, on 04/13/2008, -4/+3Sometimes the greatest truths are said in sarcasm...
- smoothdogg00, on 04/13/2008, -9/+4Seriously... every Obama freak on digg makes it their daily task to post 100 comments and 20 stories praising him. Everyone who is pro-anything else just ignores the ignorant comments and stories, and most probably don't even take the time to read them, because we aren't cry-baby drama queens like the Obama lovers are.
Typical McCain supporter:
Hard working, middle class adult who has paid their dues in life, loves their right to bear arms, and actually has values.
Typical Obama supporter:
Sniveling little hippie or art student who is anti-everything because he/she has no values in life, and doesn't believe in anything, except that everyone should be able to do whatever they want no matter how negatively it affects society.- sovietninja, on 04/13/2008, -1/+5Hold up, I'm still printing your Political Science Ph.D.
- Emceay, on 04/13/2008, -1/+3"we aren't cry-baby drama queens like the Obama lovers are."
Talk about out of touch, that entire post was written in nothing but QQs - iainc, on 04/13/2008, -1/+4MMmmmmm, sorry, what was it you were saying? I wasn't listening.
- Ajajadude, on 04/14/2008, -3/+2No, the typical McCain support now is the kind of person who would sell this country out for an extra $20 on their tax rebate. I and many others I know used to love McCain, until he he whored himself out and turned into a slackjawed necon sympathizer for the Republican nomination.
- GhengisKhan, on 04/13/2008, -11/+3Newsflash: Obama has become afflicted with Stupid-***** disease just like every other politician in this country.
- iainc, on 04/13/2008, -0/+4and, it would appear, so have you.
- candre23, on 04/13/2008, -5/+8You and your friends are offended because the comments hit close to home. I live in a small town in NJ, 5 miles from PA and most of my co-workers are PA residents. Guess what? They're mostly ignorant racist gun loving rednecks. They can't go an hour without bitching about how all the "illegals" are ruining the country or how we should just bomb everybody. Meanwhile they bend over backwards to make sure everybody knows just how much they love the war and the douchebag president who started it - the same douchebag who is primarily responsible for the unfortunate economic situation that they love to blame on immigrants.
In MY experience, with the people I know, Pensyltuckians DO have a lot of misplaced bitterness.- momsshizzle, on 04/13/2008, -8/+3Idiot, someday you'll see that they were right all along....
- Turambar, on 04/13/2008, -3/+7Tonto is trying to spread the lie that being a liberal or a democrat is similar to being a Socialist.
also, for some strange reason, he's afraid of Socialists. - digitalarcanum, on 04/13/2008, -0/+8I live in the City of Detroit. We have the highest unemployment rate in the country, our mayor is a crook who wastes city taxpayer dollars, the big three auto-makers are shipping all their jobs overseas, and I'm barely making ends meet with my bills and education, even though I'm not living on campus -- I'm still living at home, as much as I'm ashamed to admit.
My parents are hard-working folk who worked to get to where they are today. My dad worked over 30 years at Ford, and has finally retired. He's over 60 years old by the way. For Hillary or McCain to assume that us working folk are not bitter about Washington's lack of progress in keeping jobs here in the US is a slap in the face. Not just to me who is majoring in IT in spite of hearing how Chrysler just shipped 200 IT jobs from Michigan to India, but to my father who was a member of the UAW and believed in "buying american". That same phrase is now a load of tripe when every major industry in the US is shipping production and support overseas.
While I don't agree with Obama's presumptions that we care more about guns, abortion, gay marriage and religious matters than financial matters, He's still right about one thing: I'm bitter. I don't believe in the Government anymore. I don't believe in my city's government (City council is a ***** zoo and our major is a criminal), I don't believe in the state government (Granholm can't do ***** for our state right now) and I sure as hell don't believe in the Federal Government with as much ***** as we've been put through for the last two terms with George Bush and this pointless war we're fighting.
While Obama's words weren't the best he could've used, he's the candidate I can relate closest to.- KJeffV, on 04/13/2008, -2/+3I live here, too. You have a right to be bitter: Kwy Me a River is a criminal & a thug. Jennifer can't find her own ass w/both hands & a tailwind. BUTT. Detroit elected Kilpatrick, expecting him to DO something—and he did, didn't he?—and MI elected Granholme b/c she PROMISED her big business plan was going to change everything in five yrs. Time's up, Jennifer. Let's see: Leftists promised the masses something f/nothing, and nothing was precisely what they got. Yeah, I'd be bitter . . . f/buying that crap in the 1st place.
All the car mfrs are in trouble f/three reasons, the LEAST of which is "Japanese vehicle tech & work-hygiene tech are superior to America's." If the unions hadn't stolen everything in sight while simultaneously insisting workers vote Dem—see 1st ⁋—and if vehicle mfrs hadn't promised their workers the financial moon & all the stars, we'd be way ahead of where we are. Yes, jobs go overseas when it pays to do so. American white collar workers started this habit of job-jumping around thirty yrs ago. NOW they're bitter b/c the cos they work for do the same thing? And, you just admitted you're in IT . . . as IT conts to go overseas.
Bitter, indeed. Hey, I know! Let's find someone ELSE to blame.- sovietninja, on 04/13/2008, -1/+2⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋
⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋
⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋?- KJeffV, on 04/14/2008, -0/+2Hold up, I'm still printing your Copy Editor's cardboard certificate.
- sovietninja, on 04/13/2008, -1/+2⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋⁋
- KJeffV, on 04/13/2008, -2/+3I live here, too. You have a right to be bitter: Kwy Me a River is a criminal & a thug. Jennifer can't find her own ass w/both hands & a tailwind. BUTT. Detroit elected Kilpatrick, expecting him to DO something—and he did, didn't he?—and MI elected Granholme b/c she PROMISED her big business plan was going to change everything in five yrs. Time's up, Jennifer. Let's see: Leftists promised the masses something f/nothing, and nothing was precisely what they got. Yeah, I'd be bitter . . . f/buying that crap in the 1st place.
- andj, on 04/13/2008, -1/+3lol - Tonto where the surveys done at elitist restaurants?
- Aokitsune, on 04/13/2008, -0/+2Even if something is offensive, it doesn't automatically mean it's untrue. Granted, Obama's statement was a screw-up and was ultimately counter-productive to his point. It's not to say that people being religious, having guns, or being against illegal immigration is a bad thing- the big idea is that economic conditions are bad and the situation needs to improve. I agree with digatlarcanum- the government is pretty well out of touch with everyone. There's no reason not to be upset over outsourcing, war, and illegal immigration- and the fact that our government hasn't done anything about these things to help the average person. We should be mad as hell. The motto of politicians should be "Be thou for the people" but anymore they're all out for themselves. Maybe that will change someday- then we might see something worthwhile.
- archiesteel, on 04/13/2008, -1/+2I'm sorry, but Tonto "knowing people in Pennsylvania" means absolutely nothing. Even if he isn't making this up (which is likely), comments from people around you are hardly representative of an entire state.
There was nothing offensive in the comments, and Clinton/McCain's attacks will likely backfire. Deal with it.
- Ajajadude, on 04/13/2008, -16/+44If they're offended by that then they really are bitter and out-of-touch and should probably seek counseling. It wasn't exactly the best thing he could have said, but it certainly wasn't the worst thing that could have been said. What's there to be extremely offended about? Honestly?
- Pherdnut, on 04/13/2008, -48/+40Having money does not necessarily make one out of touch. I don't see how this is a relevant argument. Stick to the idiotic things they say, not the fact that they have gobs of cash. By most people's standards Obama's pretty damn rich too.
- Lutremi, on 04/13/2008, -12/+29No, but the fact that they've had the money so long does. If you began living an extravagant lifestyle decades ago, how could you credibly say that you "know" what people are going through right now?
- jamesmcv, on 04/13/2008, -3/+11You don't have to experience something personally to be sensitive to the issues that face others. I've never personally experienced war, but I'm fully aware of how horrible it is. It doesn't seem like a relevant point to attack a candidate on.
- bwebb, on 04/13/2008, -13/+8How ***** audacious can you be? You have absolutely no idea how horrible war actually is. Until you have seen people murdered in front of you or limbs blown off of your best friend/brother's body...until you have laid awake at night for days on end thinking about how that friend will ever function in society again or how their family will feel or how they will ever really be themselves again or how much you would wish for death if it were to happen to you, you have no right to open your ***** mouth about war ever again.
This reply has nothing to do with politics...I don't care that you think multi-millionaires can fully understand what these people are going through...what I care about is that you should be ashamed of yourself for the rest of your life for assuming that you think you know all about war because you've read some books and watched some History channel specials and heard what they say on the news at 7. You have no idea what you're talking about.- jamesmcv, on 04/13/2008, -4/+4You are so deep.
- JoeVet, on 04/13/2008, -1/+5You need counseling, quick. As Jamesmv said "You don't have to experience something personally to be sensitive to the issues." People don't have to see their friends killed to understand that war is a foul business best avoided. Your attack demonstrates a mental instability that needs attention.
- betterth, on 04/13/2008, -4/+2Dugg up bwebb.
Anyone who says they know how horrible is without having been to a war, they don't understand. They can't understand until they've done it.
Sure, they can be /sensitive/ to it. They can be /sympathetic/. But they will never, ever understand.
And this is the same. Hillary Clinton and John McCain can not, intrinsically know what it's like to be working or middle class. They are old money, and were raised by going to the finest schools. They drove the finest cars, and have maids and tutors. Prep schools and law schools.
Barack Obama was raised lower middle class with a single parent.
So they can shove their elitism up their ass. - lamiaconfitor, on 04/13/2008, -0/+1I agree that there is a difference between empathy and sympathy, I don't think jamesmcv was claiming sympathy with war veterans. but empathy.
- bwebb, on 04/13/2008, -13/+8How ***** audacious can you be? You have absolutely no idea how horrible war actually is. Until you have seen people murdered in front of you or limbs blown off of your best friend/brother's body...until you have laid awake at night for days on end thinking about how that friend will ever function in society again or how their family will feel or how they will ever really be themselves again or how much you would wish for death if it were to happen to you, you have no right to open your ***** mouth about war ever again.
- jamesmcv, on 04/13/2008, -3/+11You don't have to experience something personally to be sensitive to the issues that face others. I've never personally experienced war, but I'm fully aware of how horrible it is. It doesn't seem like a relevant point to attack a candidate on.
- Joshuarr, on 04/13/2008, -5/+9Try not to imagine how soffffft Hillary's hands are.
- synaesthesia, on 04/13/2008, -3/+31I disagree. For longer than most of us have been alive, Hillary has been in the elite upper-class of society. From working as a high-paid lawyer to being the wife of the State Governer, then First Lady, now a Senator, she has been so far from the daily life of the average American it is beyond ludicrous for her to call ANYBODY out of touch. Her personal assets have been in the millions for almost a decade.
Thats the person who is trying to say Obama, worked-his-way-to-the-top-from-the-bottom Obama, who only JUST made his first million from his book a few years ago, is out of touch. ***** ridiculous. - WilliamDavis, on 04/13/2008, -5/+5Exactly. Obama's a millionaire too. He just doesn't have as much money as Hillary, so Obama's much more like a regular person who understands the needs of rich and poor people alike.
- AbsurdParadox, on 04/13/2008, -5/+2LOL Do you really believe that?
- betterth, on 04/13/2008, -1/+3Why not? Obama just made his first million in the past few years with the publishing of his book. It's not like he's had money forever, just recently.
Hillary and McCain have been millionaires for decades.
- betterth, on 04/13/2008, -1/+3Why not? Obama just made his first million in the past few years with the publishing of his book. It's not like he's had money forever, just recently.
- AbsurdParadox, on 04/13/2008, -5/+2LOL Do you really believe that?
- Rapter09, on 04/13/2008, -2/+3You're missing the point, Pherdnut. It's not about the money specifically. It's not about street cred in the poor sector either. It's not about saying Obama is poor and Clinton is rich, or that either of them have any clue what its like to live paycheck to paycheck, weaving and dodging bills as you go, or what-have-you. Obama is sticking up for the towns and places that have been ignored by bringing their griefs to light and giving them some reasons for justification. He's also stating he wants to address it. I'm not saying Clinton is ignoring the poor. Maybe she is, maybe she's not. But it was a very poorly aimed and weak return fire from Hillary's campaign.
She's pulling a pretty common argument tactic: Rather than side with the individual (which - from the campaign's perspective - doesn't really distinguish Hillary from Obama at all in the end, making the statement a technical win for Obama), or argue a specific point about what the person said (and she can't, really, without basically blatantly saying 'i don't care about the poor' because Obama has a point) you just pick an opposing - but defensive - point and play it up as full truth. That was Clinton makes a flailing attempt at grabbing some of the people on the fence that might be more so inclined to take the "We're tough. We're American!" route, rather than the "lets take a look at reality" route that Obama is putting out there.
At least that's my take on things. - Pherdnut, on 04/13/2008, -0/+2"It" may not be about that but this article most certainly is. You guys are using the same assumption that McCaine and Hillary are counting on to hurt Obama on this bittegate nonsense. We can either stick to integrity or risk being seen as hypocrites and lose the platform we're energizing a new base with.
- richardpryor, on 04/13/2008, -0/+1Just because someone has money doesn't mean they are out of touch with the real world. Those who say that obviously don't have money or work very hard.
My next door neighbor drives a '97 Suburban and lives in a run down house....but he owns 2% of Toyota.
- Lutremi, on 04/13/2008, -12/+29No, but the fact that they've had the money so long does. If you began living an extravagant lifestyle decades ago, how could you credibly say that you "know" what people are going through right now?
- Sozzi, on 04/13/2008, -9/+489did anyone else read "two-hundred millionaires?"
- synystar, on 04/13/2008, -2/+60Yeah ... I almost read the article. When I saw it was two "hundred-millionaires" I thought "Who cares?"
- bfrank72, on 04/13/2008, -1/+64Hyphens rule the world, man.
- Mewchu11, on 04/13/2008, -2/+56that's a sweet ass-car!
- KJeffV, on 04/13/2008, -7/+1Sweet-ass sweet! Dia-betic.
- mm911, on 04/13/2008, -0/+2Diabeetus.
- KJeffV, on 04/13/2008, -7/+1Sweet-ass sweet! Di-a-betic.
- KJeffV, on 04/13/2008, -6/+1Izzer an echo in here?
- Smashery, on 04/13/2008, -2/+1Mewchu, you steal my thoughts!
- KJeffV, on 04/13/2008, -7/+1Sweet-ass sweet! Dia-betic.
- zenmasher, on 04/13/2008, -0/+1Shoot and all this time I thought it was the Trilateralists that ruled
- jnadke, on 04/13/2008, -1/+1ass-to-mouth
- Mewchu11, on 04/13/2008, -2/+56that's a sweet ass-car!
- CrudeDarkness, on 04/13/2008, -10/+4nah. your just seeing things, man.
- Mootabolife, on 04/13/2008, -10/+2That's a lot of millionaires. Lucky for Obama, one billionaire negates them entirely.
- snareguy17, on 04/13/2008, -18/+11I like to move hyphenated phrases one word over sometimes. For instance, when someone says "that's a sweet-ass car", I'd rather say "that's a sweet ass-car."
- Lobstertacular, on 04/13/2008, -2/+12or you could just link to the xkcd comic:
http://www.xkcd.com/37/
- Lobstertacular, on 04/13/2008, -2/+12or you could just link to the xkcd comic:
- crapuccino, on 04/13/2008, -0/+42I did. I had this amusing mental vision of 200 guys smacking Obama over the head with enormous wads of cash singing along to Hall & Oates "Out of Touch"
I really need to get out more ...- smacksaw, on 04/13/2008, -0/+1That would make sense, because in the video they were about as tall as the stacks of money would be.
- MrSlumberjack, on 04/13/2008, -0/+1With an imagination like that, there's no need to go out.
- Asdfglpwglion, on 04/13/2008, -0/+3Should have called them deci-billionaires, perhaps.
- HairyReasoner, on 04/13/2008, -0/+3That would make me a micro-billionaire.
- lcarsdeveloper, on 04/13/2008, -0/+4I would have just said "two multi-millionaires" or perhaps "2 very rich people". But then it probably wouldn't have hit the front page.
- fishbert, on 04/13/2008, -2/+7Either way it's read is inaccurate. The only true hundred-millionaire ever in contention was Mitt Romney.
The article counts earnings over the last 8 years, rather than present net worth when it calls Clinton a 'hundred-millionaire'.
But then turns around and counts Obama's single-year earnings from FIVE YEARS AGO... but is careful not to include money from his best-selling book. Talk about cherry-picking!
If you want a real reason to vote for Obama, there are much better places to find them that this sensationalist ***** article. - lhbaker, on 04/13/2008, -1/+11I thought it was an Onion story, where Obama is mobbed by angry rich people.
- Thoku, on 04/13/2008, -0/+2That would be freaking hilarious!
- junkwheel, on 04/13/2008, -0/+4Seems like over two-hundred of us did.
- ForestRangerBen, on 04/13/2008, -0/+1Yup thats the way I read it too, and its the truth, Obama has his millionaires behind him spreading the fud on digg for the win
- UnterDenLinden, on 04/13/2008, -48/+42Obama, like any human, makes mistakes. Get over it, and stop defending everything he does as if he were the second-coming.
- JoJoMoMo, on 04/13/2008, -10/+27When he stops being attacked unfairly, folks will calm down. Did you CNN's reasonable take on the issue? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4G8dRMofHNs It's Hillary that needs to calm down first. We're just responding to her crap.
- Gabberwok, on 04/13/2008, -7/+48Except I completely agree with his statement. People have been exploited on these wedge issues into supporting candidates who will actively undermine their economic interests. The problem is Obama has a nasty habit of telling the truth even when it hurts him politically. It's one of those things I like about him, but wish he could tone down a bit so he actually wins this election.
- SHv2, on 04/13/2008, -12/+10I wish the candidates would tell the public how much they're going to have to raise their taxes to afford all the programs they wants to put into place. If people knew how freaking expensive most of these were how quick would they be to jump on a bandwagon then?
- Gabberwok, on 04/13/2008, -0/+2Again, I think there's an issue of telling people what they want to hear versus telling them the truth. Unfortunately, on this issue the candidates are both being less than honest. Personally, I don't expect either of their health plans to come to pass (although I do think Hillary would fight more for hers), and honestly that they shouldn't. The health insurance companies are a huge problem and the eventual solution must be to cut them completely out of the equation with single payer universal health care that provides basic health care for everyone, leaving health insurance companies to provide only supplemental insurance. These half measures are obstacles to that goal, and honestly with our current amount of debt even they seem incredibly unrealistic. Yes, we could pay for most of the proposed health care policies with money that is currently going to Iraq, but the truth is we will need to divert all of that money to paying down our debt if we want the country to remain solvent. /ranting.
- etherreal, on 04/13/2008, -0/+1I 100% agree. This country cannot afford Universal Health Care *or* the War on Terror. If you want Universal Health Care, come back in twenty years after we have managed the debt or gone bankrupt and started over.
- vision777, on 04/13/2008, -1/+0Funny how you republicans talk about the expense of helping our people when we are pumping billions into the people of Iraq to help rebuild their country. Look at the deficit the republicans have created while when Clinton was in office he reduced the deficit. Now we have our jobs going to China in the name of Free Trade. While they give nothing back to us except slave labor. I would rather help our people than help the Iraqis, we won the war now we don't have to rebuild their country on our backs, give the money to our US citizens.
- petrodollar, on 04/13/2008, -1/+1"If people knew how freaking expensive most of these were how quick would they be to jump on a bandwagon then?"
Operation Iraqi Freedom anyone? - SHv2, on 04/13/2008, -0/+0"Funny how you republicans talk about the expense of helping our people ..."
I said generic candidates here. I never took a side here. Both sides have line items where the cost to tax payers is hidden and obscured from view. Most people blindly will go along with this line item never stopping to think about the actual cost of executing it. Most just seem to think that these things get paid for by a magical money fairy or something.
Knowing these things could sway my vote one way or the other. I may be more inclined to vote for McCain if I know that my taxes are going to drastically rise to pay for some of the items that the Democrats are proposing. I may be more inclined to vote for Obama (don't count Hillary because there's no way she even has a chance) if I know that more of my tax dollars are going to go to waste elsewhere in the world on a stupid waste of a war instead of being kept in this country and helping to get this place straightened back out.
"... when Clinton was in office he reduced the deficit."
It's rather funny you mention when Bill was in office and how he reduced the deficit. Nothing major happened in the world to where we needed to divert funds from paying down the debt. It's only logical that keeping the money here helped with that.
"While they give nothing back to us except slave labor."
That's the cost of cheap products. If you want the ***** you buy to remain cheap it has to be built cheap. Once a company tacks on its' little share to make a profit and so does the reseller and so does whomever that low base price because of China just reduced the cost of that item by a substantial margin. Let me say however that I don't necessarily condone the slave labor. We in fact should get some of those jobs back here into the US so that those jobs can go to our lower class to give them a job. We will pay for it at the checkout lane but maybe that isn't such a bad thing.
- petrodollar, on 04/13/2008, -1/+1"If people knew how freaking expensive most of these were how quick would they be to jump on a bandwagon then?"
- vision777, on 04/14/2008, -0/+0"That's the cost of cheap products"
True but they never reduced the price of items. Tell me something that went down in price when they moved production to China. They just took the additional money as profit thats why the rich are getting richer.
- Gabberwok, on 04/13/2008, -0/+2Again, I think there's an issue of telling people what they want to hear versus telling them the truth. Unfortunately, on this issue the candidates are both being less than honest. Personally, I don't expect either of their health plans to come to pass (although I do think Hillary would fight more for hers), and honestly that they shouldn't. The health insurance companies are a huge problem and the eventual solution must be to cut them completely out of the equation with single payer universal health care that provides basic health care for everyone, leaving health insurance companies to provide only supplemental insurance. These half measures are obstacles to that goal, and honestly with our current amount of debt even they seem incredibly unrealistic. Yes, we could pay for most of the proposed health care policies with money that is currently going to Iraq, but the truth is we will need to divert all of that money to paying down our debt if we want the country to remain solvent. /ranting.
- blaze03, on 04/13/2008, -2/+3Agreed 100%. I don't disagree with his views, but seriously Obama...you have this thing won. At this point, it's not worth risking jeapordizing your campaign to make a point.
- queotic, on 04/13/2008, -1/+3He's been telling the truth and it's been working. Why stop now? ;-)
- SHv2, on 04/13/2008, -12/+10I wish the candidates would tell the public how much they're going to have to raise their taxes to afford all the programs they wants to put into place. If people knew how freaking expensive most of these were how quick would they be to jump on a bandwagon then?
- chaschas, on 04/13/2008, -6/+9Obama was absolutely right. People like Clinton do not understand that people are angry and, yes, bitter about the way the old elite of which she is a member has been running the country. Even CNN talking heads say it the way it is sometimes+ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4G8dRMofHNs
- barfooz, on 04/13/2008, -16/+10I find it amusing that people are able to find fault in your comment. By digging Unter's comment down, you are asserting your belief in one or more of the following statements:
a) Obama is not human
b) Obama does not make mistakes
c) Obama is the second coming of Jesus Christ
Well, this *is* Digg, after all.- calibration, on 04/13/2008, -4/+3This is Digg, you're right and an idiot. People look at the comment as a whole.
- Netrilix, on 04/13/2008, -1/+8Thank you. I am sick of this bandwagon crap that has every negative post about him buried. What happened to actual political discussion? Personally, I'm planning on voting for him at the moment, but that's not locked in stone. I will continue to watch how the whole thing unfolds, and go from there. Apparently Digg isn't the place to turn for honest argument about the issues.
- betterth, on 04/13/2008, -1/+3In the eyes of Digg, McCain and Hillary are terrible candidates.
Then again, without Digg, I can find about a thousand good reasons why Hillary clinton should not only not be our president, but should never have power, ever again. She's scary. - budoudoh, on 04/13/2008, -1/+2Man, I am tired of people saying this about digg. Digg is not a true news site. People digg up stories they like and digg down ones they don't. So if the majority of diggers like something like Macs, Rick-rolling, or Barack Obama, you will get more positive stories about these things and less negative ones. If you don't like the stories you are seeing, find a site with a viewer base that better reflects your feeling and stop bashing this one because it doesn't.
- novaculus, on 04/13/2008, -1/+7Or, you can hang around and inject the occasional note of sanity and rationality into the ongoing moonbat opera, then sit back and enjoy the resulting cacophony of cognitive dissonance. Sweet!
- Stevanoski, on 04/13/2008, -1/+5lol
- ZenaTWQ, on 05/05/2008, -0/+5I want to digg this at least twice :)
- novaculus, on 04/13/2008, -1/+7Or, you can hang around and inject the occasional note of sanity and rationality into the ongoing moonbat opera, then sit back and enjoy the resulting cacophony of cognitive dissonance. Sweet!
- lamiaconfitor, on 04/13/2008, -1/+3Democracy is a bad idea.
- betterth, on 04/13/2008, -1/+3In the eyes of Digg, McCain and Hillary are terrible candidates.
- betterth, on 04/13/2008, -6/+7Obama did not make a mistake here.
People are bitter. People are angry. People have every right.
Clinton and her supporters need to get over the fact that being bitter is not only expected, it's ***** human. - irvman21, on 04/13/2008, -7/+2Typical white people.
- pascalpotvin, on 04/13/2008, -3/+4Typical racist.
- irvman21, on 04/14/2008, -0/+3I assume you are talking about Obama.
- pascalpotvin, on 04/13/2008, -3/+4Typical racist.
- jbdobd, on 04/13/2008, -10/+154After the last 8 years, I sure as hell am bitter. And I welcome having a presidential candidate with the balls to recognize it and be honest about it.
- tHePeOPle, on 04/13/2008, -3/+7Right on. I love the ***** outrage whenever someone comes along and actually TELLS THE TRUTH. He should not apologize. He was dead on.
- iainc, on 04/13/2008, -2/+6I think you're right. For too long now, people have grown used to being told what politicians think they want to hear.
- smacksaw, on 04/13/2008, -2/+10He's breaking the unsaid rule about politicians telling the truth. It's supposed to be about rhetoric. Done right, it should look like the campaign Kang and Kodos ran in The Simpsons. God forbid he tell the truth!
- Pillage, on 04/13/2008, -1/+2only 8?
- 4d669, on 04/13/2008, -2/+6lol, so what are you guys clinging to? guns? religion? an anti-immigrant sentiment? Because you know, that's the part of the message that was offensive and you guys are saying it's true.
- macweirdo42, on 04/13/2008, -1/+1Remember that story on digg where the girl lied about being attacked for being anti-illegal-immigrant, and how quick the digg brigade was to swoop in? It wasn't just that the girl was allegedly wronged - no one would've given two ***** if this were over some stupid schoolyard fight, but the fact that it was over illegal immigration touched a nerve.
In light of this, I'd say Obama hit the nail on the head. I'm not saying it's wrong to be against illegal immigration, but there's just so much irrational anger built up around it.- petrodollar, on 04/13/2008, -1/+1I think you underestimate American intolerance toward ooky peope who talk funny.
- macweirdo42, on 04/13/2008, -1/+2Ah yes, but intolerance is often bred out of fear.
- petrodollar, on 04/13/2008, -1/+1I think you underestimate American intolerance toward ooky peope who talk funny.
- macweirdo42, on 04/13/2008, -1/+1Remember that story on digg where the girl lied about being attacked for being anti-illegal-immigrant, and how quick the digg brigade was to swoop in? It wasn't just that the girl was allegedly wronged - no one would've given two ***** if this were over some stupid schoolyard fight, but the fact that it was over illegal immigration touched a nerve.
- septicmadman, on 04/13/2008, -1/+2I wouldn't say it was so his possession of bullocks so much as the word-twisting by another candidate.
- ZenaTWQ, on 05/05/2008, -5/+6'Honesty' or 'truth' from Obama...Lemmings...
- Emceay, on 04/13/2008, -1/+1The cliff is right over there, please lead by example.
- Cofaloaf, on 04/13/2008, -0/+1I'm not bitter I'm just rolling up my sleeves like a real AmeriCAN...
/slap Hillary. - ell0bo, on 04/13/2008, -1/+1Everything has not been ok here for years, and screw you if you think I should be happy with how thing got to this point. If I am bitter, or someone thinks I'm bitter, that doesn't make me or them a bad person, it makes us realists.
- RomeyRome, on 04/13/2008, -0/+2I look forward to the millionaires moving to Dubai. Then the bitter can support the bitter.
- NonLeftistDiggr, on 04/13/2008, -18/+23These are people who stood by and watched their job be pulled out from under them, because they were too busy listening to politicians and union reps tell them they had a right to good paying high benefits low skilled manufacturing jobs, while the rest of the country and world passed them by. I don't know what Obama is talking about, but it sounds like he wants to bring back low skilled labor jobs to the USA!! YAY!!!!...... oh wait.
What these people really need is a good scrub down of conscience to rid themselves of the ideaology all these populist politicians brainwashed into them for generations that they can't make it on their own.- smacksaw, on 04/13/2008, -0/+11Well, I haven't finished his book yet, but from what I understand thus far his stance on that issue is not letting companies get away scot-free by eliminating plants. I'm all for free trade and fair trade, but that's assuming the other side follows the same rules. No one does.
It's interesting to me to think about it. What if GM shuts down a plant and moves it to Mexico? NAFTA pretty much lets them do that. What if we taxed the imported cars from the line they moved to pay for job retraining and benefits for the displaced workers?
Is that really such an offencive idea? A job isn't welfare. But it comes down to gov't and taxpayers who have to pay for a town that gets gutted by an industry leaving. It costs ALL of us. GM or whoever really gets away with murder because they leave and the burden is on the communities and taxpayers. Why should they have it so easy after that?
You're half right about not wanting to bring low-skill jobs back the USA. In fact, I'm all for shipping jobs to the developing world. I think it's wrong that monopolise prosperity while other people are subjugated by our imperialism and corporatism. But if we're going to get rid of low-skill jobs, THE IDEA IS NOT TO REPLACE THEM NOTHING. We're supposed to replace them with better jobs. That's progress. We need progress, not elimination.- Anisotropic, on 04/13/2008, -0/+5Such rules are in place in France. They have higher unemployment.
- petrodollar, on 04/13/2008, -1/+2What "rules" are you referring to?
- rdoger6424, on 04/13/2008, -0/+1But they're French.
- Anisotropic, on 04/13/2008, -0/+5Such rules are in place in France. They have higher unemployment.
- Pillage, on 04/13/2008, -0/+16I don't mean to be...an ***** but for some people low or unskilled jobs are the only jobs they can do.
- brad3378, on 04/13/2008, -1/+4Which is another reason why we shouldn't be shipping these jobs to China.
- SaperKain, on 04/13/2008, -5/+1Are you getting paid to post ***** like this. Go ***** yourself!!!
- Myztry, on 04/13/2008, -0/+1It's worse than simply pulling jobs out from under people. The manufacturing goes to place like China where the goods are produced in a manner illegal in the Western Nations that they supply.
If you can't buy a song that has been legally produced in a foreign country, but illegal to the law of the Western Nation, then why are all the other imports different? IP law isn't the only law...
Chinese workers get maimed and killed in manners illegal in the west. The global environment gets raped. It's not merely multi-millionaire IP owners missing out on a few dollars... It's enough to put some lead in your chew toy...
I'm not generally for much government regulation, but imports should be certified so that all parts of the manufacturing process reach legal minimum requirements... For competition reasons if nothing else... - macweirdo42, on 04/13/2008, -0/+1Okay, I'm partly with you there... It's true, we do need to embrace globalization... But we need to be honest about what you're talking about here. In the case of manufacturing jobs, we're not taking advantage of the fact that in other countries, they can do these jobs cheaper and more efficiently. We're taking advantage of the fact that in these countries, these jobs are basically only a small step up from slave labor. I just don't see how one can ethically support that kind of a system.
- queotic, on 04/13/2008, -0/+3Since we're shipping jobs overseas and moving towards a more service oriented, rather than industrial economy, we need to provide better access to education so that those people who previously filled the industrial jobs can cross over into other types (currently, 67% of our GDP is service oriented). We can't take away people's jobs, stagnant the wages on their new crappy jobs and consistently increase college costs & cost-of-living and expect people to be fine (not to mention worrying about health-care). What about all the areas where thousands of jobs were lost to overseas, but no corporation moved in to replace it? People are not asking for hand outs, they're asking for the opportunity to work.
- Myztry, on 04/14/2008, -0/+1China does the labor. India does the service desk. What's left? Consuming...
- smacksaw, on 04/13/2008, -0/+11Well, I haven't finished his book yet, but from what I understand thus far his stance on that issue is not letting companies get away scot-free by eliminating plants. I'm all for free trade and fair trade, but that's assuming the other side follows the same rules. No one does.
- chubbybubba, on 04/13/2008, -49/+14This and Obama's "typical white person" remark when defending his grandmother bother me greatly. I worry that under all that polish is rev wright!
- Joshuarr, on 04/13/2008, -12/+14You're stupid.
- johnny2k, on 04/13/2008, -4/+7And we can certainly tell how intelligent you are, Joshuarr... or at least how intelligent you THINK you are..... And I'm sure you will spend your entire summer anticipating the great fun you will have going on to 6th grade next fall! Woohoo! Be sure to let us know how that goes!
- Joshuarr, on 04/13/2008, -2/+3You're stupid too.
- maybeishould, on 04/13/2008, -1/+5Is that all you can say, Joshua?
- ZenaTWQ, on 05/05/2008, -0/+4You said it! Johnny2k has Joshua nailed.
- johnny2k, on 04/13/2008, -4/+7And we can certainly tell how intelligent you are, Joshuarr... or at least how intelligent you THINK you are..... And I'm sure you will spend your entire summer anticipating the great fun you will have going on to 6th grade next fall! Woohoo! Be sure to let us know how that goes!
- chris9902, on 04/13/2008, -3/+3Put the TV down and go read a newspaper. It's embarrassing.
- smacksaw, on 04/13/2008, -5/+3Do you really think that a person of his intellect can afford a handheld television?
- JoeVet, on 04/13/2008, -6/+2Its sad that all the GOP has against Obama are the words of some one else. Well.....they have the fact that he's black but they can't talk about that publicly now, can they? Instead we will be hearing about his minister and his name and other irrelevant things when all the while these rednecks really just want to say n****. The GOP is so very predictable.
- proliance, on 04/13/2008, -2/+3Obama insulted his grandmother on national TV. His grandmother for God's sake.
They were his words, no one else's.
- proliance, on 04/13/2008, -2/+3Obama insulted his grandmother on national TV. His grandmother for God's sake.
- fivo7, on 04/13/2008, -3/+2have you seen the reverend behind mcCain, makes wright (who served his country) look like a boyscout
- macweirdo42, on 04/13/2008, -0/+1I honestly don't see how you make that connection. I would really like an explanation here. Unfortunately, by questioning an anti-Obama person, I know I'm simply opening myself up to a barrage of childish name-calling from other anti-Obama people, but I'd seriously really like to know.
- chubbybubba, on 04/15/2008, -0/+1The instant you use the word "typical" in regard to race shows a stereotypical bias. You don't say "typical woman" or "typical black man" or "typical white person". Dividing people into "typical" categories implies predjudice and is a basis for racism. By the way, Barack called his grandmother a "typical white person" when defending her racist comments disclosed during his post Rev. Wright speech. (fyi.. I am not anti-obama)
- vision777, on 04/13/2008, -1/+3Obama is half white. He grew up surrounded only by whites. Why can't he talk about his own race?
- Joshuarr, on 04/13/2008, -12/+14You're stupid.
- shyner, on 04/13/2008, -7/+13I had to reread the title a few times to actually comprehend it. "Two hundred-millionaires" was confusing at first...
- afruff23, on 04/13/2008, -20/+9What irks me about Obama's statement is the presumption that the government creates jobs. No it doesn't. It destroys another job in the process. If government jobs really created growth, then we oughta have 20 wars to make sure we have some growth. It doesn't work like that at all.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken ...- Railz, on 04/13/2008, -3/+10The New Deal?
- AbsurdParadox, on 04/13/2008, -3/+2Buried for ignorance.
- AbsurdParadox, on 04/13/2008, -3/+2Buried for ignorance.
- ucbmckee, on 04/13/2008, -4/+3Incorrect, it results in a net gain of jobs. Everyone knows that your average government worker is, being optimistic, half as efficient as someone in the private sector. Thus, to do the same amount of work, you have to have at least twice the labour force. That sounds like job growth to me.
- afruff23, on 04/13/2008, -0/+2So if job growth is using the more people to do a job that one person can do, then I guess having 5 people at a cashier is better? That is not job growth; that is just making work.
- brad3378, on 04/13/2008, -0/+1Now you're starting to understand how the system works.
- afruff23, on 04/13/2008, -0/+2So if job growth is using the more people to do a job that one person can do, then I guess having 5 people at a cashier is better? That is not job growth; that is just making work.
- kurtergad87, on 04/13/2008, -0/+7The question is not if a job is created, but whether that job stimulates the rest of the economy. If a job in the public sector is one less in the private sphere, then yes, it might have no real effect for growth. If a job in the public sector however increases the overall productivity of society, it should be encouraged.
- afruff23, on 04/13/2008, -1/+1But that is fundamentally impossible since the government cannot know what is the best place to allocate resources to. It is called the economic calculation problem:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_calculation_ ...- kurtergad87, on 04/14/2008, -0/+1And why would anyone else know where to allocate resources? The economic premise of a rational agent is flawed in so many ways it hurts the eyes. People don't base their actions on a long-term cost-benefit analysis, but on a mindset built for making offspring and short-term survival. The enormous amount of negative externalities found in many daily transactions are completely overlooked by many people, and even if they knew of them, they might simply not care enough. Why should the present count more than the future? You might say we can be certain it is there, but I still feel a purely libertarian view of economics overlook this major injustice.
As an example of overall beneficial jobs supplied by the government, you might need food safety inspectors to make sure people get food that won't make them sick. Without them everyone would be worse off. The consumers would not be able to check for diseases beforehand and a brand based reputation seems a naive solution. The food inspectors would however not exist in a non-government market. The consumers might free-ride out of paying and the interested corporations would have a _vested_ interest, making any results unreliable. The institutional consequence of the state gives a better society in many cases. Look at the Scandinavian countries as an example.
The Economic Calculation Problem mostly applies to purely socialistic countries, but when did I say that was the case? I even speak of the private sphere in a positive regard! A one-line response with a supplied wiki-link could at least have included a small amount of reading comprehension.
- kurtergad87, on 04/14/2008, -0/+1And why would anyone else know where to allocate resources? The economic premise of a rational agent is flawed in so many ways it hurts the eyes. People don't base their actions on a long-term cost-benefit analysis, but on a mindset built for making offspring and short-term survival. The enormous amount of negative externalities found in many daily transactions are completely overlooked by many people, and even if they knew of them, they might simply not care enough. Why should the present count more than the future? You might say we can be certain it is there, but I still feel a purely libertarian view of economics overlook this major injustice.
- afruff23, on 04/13/2008, -1/+1But that is fundamentally impossible since the government cannot know what is the best place to allocate resources to. It is called the economic calculation problem:
- darwinwins, on 04/13/2008, -1/+6Yes and no. The government does and doesn't create jobs. The context in which he speaks about job growth is by providing the conditions in which jobs might come back an area - nothing in life is guaranteed but he can implement measures by which companies would look more favorable in establishing jobs back to those battered areas. As for the government, it does create jobs and pays its employees from taxes people pay. Otherwise, the government wouldn't function without people.
- pintomp3, on 04/13/2008, -0/+1destruction isn't the only way to create jobs, zorg. you can invest it in infrastructure, like repairing/building our bridges and roads.
- netant, on 04/13/2008, -0/+2But only if building bridges and roads actually increases economic activity. If there is no significant population serviced by building a new bridge or road, the transit efficiency doesn't result in new jobs. Senator "Tubes" Stevens demonstrates that reality with his "Bridge to Nowhere".
- afruff23, on 04/13/2008, -1/+2The point wasn't that government spending is destructive. The point is that government spending gets rid of another job that could have been there. When you say "infrastructure", you are neglecting the opportunity cost. The alternative would be subject to the laws of economics and thus be pressured into services demanded most by people, rather than a few individuals creating the budget.
- petrodollar, on 04/13/2008, -1/+2"If government jobs really created growth, then we oughta have 20 wars to make sure we have some growth"
Because all government spending must be for war?- afruff23, on 04/13/2008, -1/+1No, but war spending is no different from "creating jobs" for building highways in the fact that both are not the best uses of a given resource (namely labor).
- petrodollar, on 04/14/2008, -0/+1You're an idiot. Of course it's different from "creating jobs" because a) it creates at best a tiny handful of jobs and b) it pulls people (e.g. army reserves) OUT of jobs they already have.
If the government wants to create jobs for the sake of creating jobs, it can do that. It can create new agencies or, preferably, simply invest in private economic sectors like high tech R&D. You think Boeing would be the leading aircraft manufacturer in the world without all the fat government contracts it has? Same goes for General Electric, General Motors, and a ***** ton of other major U.S. manufacturers. Go ask a South Korean how Hyundai got started. Ask them if they think government spending can create jobs.
Please try to be less of a moron in your next post.
- petrodollar, on 04/14/2008, -0/+1You're an idiot. Of course it's different from "creating jobs" because a) it creates at best a tiny handful of jobs and b) it pulls people (e.g. army reserves) OUT of jobs they already have.
- afruff23, on 04/13/2008, -1/+1No, but war spending is no different from "creating jobs" for building highways in the fact that both are not the best uses of a given resource (namely labor).
- Railz, on 04/13/2008, -3/+10The New Deal?
- Cyberen, on 04/13/2008, -24/+34Obama, Hillary. Obama, Hillary, McCain.
While people like Ron Paul and Mike Gravel are swept under the rug due to media blacklisting.
And people just go along with it!
Who gives a ***** about this Obama drama? Don't you realize this ***** is cooked up and amplified to distract people from actual ISSUES?- barfooz, on 04/13/2008, -19/+8People like Ron Paul and Mike Gravel are swept under the rug because their positions are too far to the left or right to appeal to a broad section of American voters. Put your tinfoil hat back on.
- 4d669, on 04/13/2008, -3/+19I never thought I see the day in which supporting REAL candidates for REAL parties would be considered crazy. You people have been brainwashed so deeply, that doing ANYTHING that is different from what the masses and media agree upon is automatically considered 'tinfoil hat' talk in your mind with no reasoning behind it. I wonder how long until being a democrat is considered being a tin foil hat lunatic. People like you read 1984 in high school and rave about it and then you go on the internet and demonstrate how double think owns your soul.
- petrodollar, on 04/13/2008, -5/+1Yes, we're brainwashed. Because the REAL inflation rate is 40% or some *****, not less than 3%, right?
- RC155, on 04/13/2008, -0/+4Hey, remember they have been told that "working really hard" all your life and having two or three jobs to makes ends meet is "uniquely American" --- like that is something we need to be proud off -- when in the "real civilized world" people work less and enjoy life more.
- 4d669, on 04/13/2008, -3/+19I never thought I see the day in which supporting REAL candidates for REAL parties would be considered crazy. You people have been brainwashed so deeply, that doing ANYTHING that is different from what the masses and media agree upon is automatically considered 'tinfoil hat' talk in your mind with no reasoning behind it. I wonder how long until being a democrat is considered being a tin foil hat lunatic. People like you read 1984 in high school and rave about it and then you go on the internet and demonstrate how double think owns your soul.
- barfooz, on 04/13/2008, -19/+8People like Ron Paul and Mike Gravel are swept under the rug because their positions are too far to the left or right to appeal to a broad section of American voters. Put your tinfoil hat back on.
- Jovensdesciple, on 04/13/2008, -27/+9He's not out of touch with his wife's America-hating balls. ***** him.
- 4d669, on 04/13/2008, -4/+3I wonder what the brainless diggers who follow Obama like a creationist follows ID will do when they find out that Obama is married to someone who is part of CFR, which was lead by Cheney for a long time, that he voted for the Patriot Act and Real ID Act and that Cheney not only endorses him, but is his distant cousin. Go ahead, bury me, it will make it go away, that's what creationists do with science and it works for them.
- scottc, on 04/13/2008, -1/+5It's not a lack of knowledge - you and many others have repeated that mantra for months now. Most diggers, like most Americans, just don't think those issues are nearly as important as others. And those who do consider them paramount realize that Obama has the most sensible position on them of the three remaining candidates. So if you get buried it will be because we disagree with you, not because of wanting to stick our heads in the sand.
- 4d669, on 04/13/2008, -1/+2Exactly, that's what people said about Bush and Cheney before they got elected, that all those 'CONZPEERACIE THEORIEZ' were not important and they voted for him anyway. Then they put the former leader of CFR in the white house for 8 years and complain every time John Stewart tells them to complain. History is repeating itself. You can't vote for a guy because he's likable.
- scottc, on 04/13/2008, -1/+5It's not a lack of knowledge - you and many others have repeated that mantra for months now. Most diggers, like most Americans, just don't think those issues are nearly as important as others. And those who do consider them paramount realize that Obama has the most sensible position on them of the three remaining candidates. So if you get buried it will be because we disagree with you, not because of wanting to stick our heads in the sand.
- NoDivision, on 04/13/2008, -1/+1To think that this somehow effects Obama's politics is like saying every husband in America agrees with what their wife says.
Are you really saying that?
- 4d669, on 04/13/2008, -4/+3I wonder what the brainless diggers who follow Obama like a creationist follows ID will do when they find out that Obama is married to someone who is part of CFR, which was lead by Cheney for a long time, that he voted for the Patriot Act and Real ID Act and that Cheney not only endorses him, but is his distant cousin. Go ahead, bury me, it will make it go away, that's what creationists do with science and it works for them.
- Seldon2639, on 04/13/2008, -6/+7I don't think the issue is that this is wealthy people accusing Obama (who is not exactly dirt poor) of being "out of touch", the issue is runaway populism. The appeal is always to "real" American values, the "heartland" all of that sort of thing. Obama does it himself (in things like "I'm not from Washington, I still have hope, ect." and in "people are having foreclosures, we must do something now"). Hillary does it on Healthcare, McCain does it on apple pie and patriotism. The issue, then, was a crack in the veneer of Obama being a "man of the people". Of course, I blame the American people (myself included) for appreciating the type of politician that panders to our want for populism, but this wasn't Obama as a battered hero valliantly struggling to tell the truth, it was him letting slip that maybe he isn't as populist as he shows
- TheWorm, on 04/13/2008, -6/+6Obama should have known not to include the thing about guns and religion, especially with the aptitude for language he has shown during this campaign. He's right on, but he should avoid saying things that he knows the media and his opponents will use against him.
- scottc, on 04/13/2008, -2/+5That would be the politically safe thing to do, but as we've seen throughout his history of public service he doesn't stick to safe or conventional politics. That's what makes him the strongest candidate. Everyone disagrees with him on something, but nearly everyone recognizes that he speaks with integrity and because of that he will occasionally make each of us uncomfortable. Sometimes the truth hurts. In the end he gets a tremendous amount of respect, and that will go a long way towards getting things done after he is elected and towards healing the divisions created by the Bush/Clinton dynasty.
- xerigen, on 04/13/2008, -6/+85GOD DAMNIT! Can we CUT THE ***** and talk about REAL ISSUES?! This is so meaningless it hurts my brain!
- darwinwins, on 04/13/2008, -3/+4But this is a genuine issue - the social question, as it wasn't addressed by the founding fathers has since been revised and modern day politicans have to address the suffering of the masses. This is an issue that matters to the people whose lives have been directly affected by the actions of the federal government. It's been such a a pariah of a subject for so long that politicians have paid it lip service if they mentioned it at all. Because of that, it seems like a frivolous issues, and people become apathetic to it. But since he's addressed, it forces everyone to address it. That ain't no small thing. This is an issue - an impassioned issue for some; Obama's worked with the inner city poor for years and he does know about poverty. He's not so far removed from those years to have forgotten. It's to his credit that he's brought this to the public discourse, even if this one was sorta thrust upon him by an offhand remark in a private setting. It's his issue now.
- 4d669, on 04/13/2008, -11/+8Tell that to Obama, his complete campaign has been full of empty words like change and hope and has NEVER talked about the economic recession and what he would do as president. All he has said firmly is that he wants to change the war from Iraq to Afghanistan. ***** that *****.
- scottc, on 04/13/2008, -0/+6He's been talking about the possibility of a recession in his campaign speeches for months now - long before the current administration dared to mention it.
- korvan504521, on 04/13/2008, -2/+1and what are his suggestions on how to fix it? we already know mccain doesn't have a clue, but we want to know what Obama actually is going to DO about it.
- 4d669, on 04/13/2008, -2/+6He posted his economic plan on his site a few weeks ago. He wants to give money to the poor. Make the deficit even bigger etc. When you read it you'll think it's an april fools joke.
- scottc, on 04/13/2008, -2/+1korvan: if that's an honest question you can read or watch those speeches, read his website, or search news coverage of his and his advisor's statments.
4d: as you know all three candidates propose giving money to the poor. You may consider that foolish but the reasons for it are so strong that even McCain has changed his mind on it, and he's taking a political risk in doing so. If you are really concerned about the deficit then you should vote for whichever Democrat is the nominee. Not only do the Republicans have a worse record on spending, but McCain insists that he will continue that tradition, with everything from corporate subsidies to the biggest waste of all - the unnecessary war.
- korvan504521, on 04/13/2008, -2/+1and what are his suggestions on how to fix it? we already know mccain doesn't have a clue, but we want to know what Obama actually is going to DO about it.
- scottc, on 04/13/2008, -0/+6He's been talking about the possibility of a recession in his campaign speeches for months now - long before the current administration dared to mention it.
- HotSaucePanCake, on 04/13/2008, -0/+2hypocrite
- brad3378, on 04/13/2008, -1/+2A *****-men
(edit: the hyphen was intentional)
- arbouler, on 04/13/2008, -7/+3http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/2075/clintonax2 ...
- lamiaconfitor, on 04/13/2008, -1/+4If:Photoshop=impressive political argument
then:delete society
- lamiaconfitor, on 04/13/2008, -1/+4If:Photoshop=impressive political argument
- Darkside2984, on 04/13/2008, -27/+9Buried as Obamaspam. That's 6 I have had to bury today. You set them up, I'll knock them down :)
- qrudee, on 04/13/2008, -8/+4Digg for some time now has been an daily Obama stroke fest....
- lamiaconfitor, on 04/13/2008, -0/+1Its funny how you guys are the ones that think of all the sexual metaphors... which I am sure is accompanied by witty political commentary. Im sure...
- darwinwins, on 04/13/2008, -2/+2I'm all for Obama but yeah, this is a bit silly - most of the stuff today has pretty much been the same thing with different writers and sites.
- 4d669, on 04/13/2008, -2/+5Digg is now a gossip site, but instead of Britney they just talk about what Hillary does wrong all day and then get dramatic when someone stops being a brainless Obama fan. The funny thing is that most of these people where Ron Paul fans 5 months ago.
- MrESaulved, on 04/13/2008, -0/+1They were not true Ron Paul fans, they were and are bought and paid for drones, amplifying the voice that bought them for dollars.
The independent thinker on Digg is a rare creature. Let alone one that posts something other than "*****".
- MrESaulved, on 04/13/2008, -0/+1They were not true Ron Paul fans, they were and are bought and paid for drones, amplifying the voice that bought them for dollars.
- cobbwobbles, on 04/13/2008, -0/+1Your strategy doesn't seem to be working.
- qrudee, on 04/13/2008, -8/+4Digg for some time now has been an daily Obama stroke fest....
- ogisdan, on 04/13/2008, -2/+7Someone should ask Hilary what she wants for this election. She knows she is only hanging in by a needle; instead of dropping out and helping her fellow party member, she is slandering his name. It seems as though she has a mine or none mentality because all she is doing is dividing democratic voters which could possibly lead to a McCain USA.
- darwinwins, on 04/13/2008, -1/+1Not if Bob Brrr has anything to do with it. C'mon Bob, be our what Nader was to Gore for McCain. You can do it Bob!
- RRJackson, on 04/13/2008, -19/+10He's perfectly in-touch with his antisemitism and his disregard for rural white Americans.
- darwinwins, on 04/13/2008, -3/+8He has more in touch with white rural Americans than the other two just based on personal finance. Hell, most of the college students come from middle class and he is strictly middle class. Obama is much much closer to middle America in that regard - he's just finished paying off his college loans a few years ago. How many middle America students go to college on Scholarship? Well this guy did it and now he's running for POTUS and beating the crap out of someone who's very much been part of American politics since the early 20's. That's quite the achievement that middle America can only hope to one day achieve and Obama embodies it. While Hilary may have been middle class at once time, that was over three decades ago.
- RRJackson, on 04/13/2008, -6/+4Wow, she was middle-class three whole decades ago? Did they have electricity back then? You certainly can't trust anyone who's been successful, so you should definitely not vote for her. Meanwhile, those of us who don't approve of black liberation theology will vote for Clinton or McCain.
- papipablo, on 04/13/2008, -5/+4Maybe in 3 decades you'll get to be middle class.
- RRJackson, on 04/13/2008, -7/+2But you'll never get your soul back.
- smacksaw, on 04/13/2008, -1/+5So you believe that blacks should be enslaved? Seeing as it's the opposite of liberating them.
Way to just admit you're a KKK/Nazi racist prick. And to think, you started this thread by invoking antisemitism.
- papipablo, on 04/13/2008, -5/+4Maybe in 3 decades you'll get to be middle class.
- RRJackson, on 04/13/2008, -6/+4Wow, she was middle-class three whole decades ago? Did they have electricity back then? You certainly can't trust anyone who's been successful, so you should definitely not vote for her. Meanwhile, those of us who don't approve of black liberation theology will vote for Clinton or McCain.
- darwinwins, on 04/13/2008, -3/+8He has more in touch with white rural Americans than the other two just based on personal finance. Hell, most of the college students come from middle class and he is strictly middle class. Obama is much much closer to middle America in that regard - he's just finished paying off his college loans a few years ago. How many middle America students go to college on Scholarship? Well this guy did it and now he's running for POTUS and beating the crap out of someone who's very much been part of American politics since the early 20's. That's quite the achievement that middle America can only hope to one day achieve and Obama embodies it. While Hilary may have been middle class at once time, that was over three decades ago.
- JackHarkness, on 04/13/2008, -2/+3Finally, actual irony.
- Pillage, on 04/13/2008, -6/+18How many times is a guy that is great with words gonna be so bad with them?
- irvman21, on 04/13/2008, -0/+6It is amazing to me how many times a very gifted, very intelligent speaker has made huge mistakes lately.
- novaculus, on 04/13/2008, -2/+5What is that definition of a political gaffe? Isn't that what happens when a politician mistakenly says what he actually believes?
Obama created a false image of himself as a moderate, a bridge-builder and peacemaker, a man who understands what average Americans believe and want. The problems like this one result when things which reveal the real Obama leak out and conflict with that false image.- Pillage, on 04/13/2008, -0/+2I mean, when he said "typical white person", that's a gaffe, he didn't write that down it just popped into his head. But this "bitter" Statement was written down and said deliberately to this crowd.
- marf1025, on 04/13/2008, -7/+1200 millionaires could easily fund the Mprize (and also the Xprize equivalent) to find the cures, using advanced nanotech/biotech for aging...if these so-called people really cared for the masses, they would donate 1 million each and easily get over the minimum amount estimated by the Mprize (100 million) to fund the research to first start slowing down aging in mice, then people (www.mprize.org and www.sens.org). These rich people (buffet, bill gates, the rich people in the Arab countries and Asia) made most of their money on the backs of you and me. It's about time they showed some gratitude and financed something everybody could benefit from, after all these rich people can't be all that smart if they can't connect the dots and realize that breakthroughs that are coming down the research pipe will let them live hundreds of years by reversing and repairing the aging process, I remember before the personal computer, when people did not believe a small computer could exist even when it was in the room beside them, they had to be shown it, and even then they were really shocked about it. The recent ABC Barbara Walter's special on aging is a really good place to start, perhaps if we took 1 billion of each 12 billion we spend per month on the war in Iraq we could get somewhere...
- felman87, on 04/13/2008, -1/+4the 2 -hundred millionaires being referred to are McCain and Clinton
- motorhead9999, on 04/13/2008, -0/+3Because throwing money at a problem with no known solution ever solved anything....
- mal1964, on 04/13/2008, -4/+2Train Wreck Politics– a collection of humor, cynicism, pop culture, and semi-serious commentary– is the 1,000,000th political blog to go online in 2008. Its author, Griffin, is a writer and part-time political consultant
http://trainwreckpolitics.com/about/
Seek Help some of you please, Or take a Obama on digg day off he wont die. - invasi0n, on 04/13/2008, -4/+2Who attack him, these?
http://www.zombietime.com/obama_visits_billionaire ... - scairborn, on 04/13/2008, -3/+20Yes, I am from Pennsylvania and I'm bitter.
- nalimca, on 04/13/2008, -2/+1Dugg. Somehow this funny scenario comes into mind: After a clip of Obama "bitterness" speech, "I am scairborn from PA and I approve this message".
- lhbaker, on 04/13/2008, -3/+3Good sheep. Think what they tell you to think.
- brad3378, on 04/13/2008, -0/+1I'm from Michigan and bitter.
Thankfully there's still jobs in PA and for that I'm thankful.
No offense but I'd rather be living & working back at home.- digitalarcanum, on 04/13/2008, -0/+121 year old michigander, born, raised, and still living in Detroit: let me tell you that you're not missing anything. In fact, we have the highest unemployment rate in the country.
- brad3378, on 04/13/2008, -0/+1I know - I still own a house there.
- digitalarcanum, on 04/13/2008, -0/+121 year old michigander, born, raised, and still living in Detroit: let me tell you that you're not missing anything. In fact, we have the highest unemployment rate in the country.
- amanilaenvelope, on 04/13/2008, -3/+1 mirror : http://www.consciousexistence.com/family/mirror.gi ...
- 4d669, on 04/13/2008, -14/+8Wife in CFR
Voted for Patriot Act and Real ID Act
Doesn't want to end war, just change it's location to Afghanistan
Has an economic plan that will start the Second Great Depression
Is endorsed by Cheney and is his distant cousin
Shouting change and hope over and over
??????
PROFIT- JoeVet, on 04/13/2008, -5/+9You do know that these silly conspiracy theories got your boy Ron Paul sunk. Intelligent people stop reading everything after CFR and feel sorry for you.
- Groovemaster, on 04/13/2008, -6/+3You mean "pseudo-intelligent people who hang on every word the corporate controlled mainstream media feeds them".
The irony in being pitied by ignorant idiots is palpable. - randumbusername, on 04/13/2008, -2/+0sounds more intelligent than CHANGE CHANGE CHANGE CHANGE CHANGE
- rdoger6424, on 04/13/2008, -0/+1Too bad the nutbag vote isn't a real factor in this election.
- 4d669, on 04/13/2008, -0/+1CFR has their conferences on C-SPAN and CNN all the time, what the hell are you talking about? Everything I said is public and has been reported by the mainstream media. If you think that the truth about Obama is a 'conspiracy theory' then you should not vote for the guy.
Also, use google or just go on CFR's on website.
- Groovemaster, on 04/13/2008, -6/+3You mean "pseudo-intelligent people who hang on every word the corporate controlled mainstream media feeds them".
- JoeVet, on 04/13/2008, -5/+9You do know that these silly conspiracy theories got your boy Ron Paul sunk. Intelligent people stop reading everything after CFR and feel sorry for you.
- GrodyChamp, on 04/13/2008, -17/+12I love how Obama messes up and says some genuinly stupid *****, and of course the majority of Digg sees no problem with it.
HE SAID SOMETHING STUPID. OMG HE'S HUMAN. He could eat a baby live on TV and you idiots would make excuses as to why the baby deserved it.- smotpoker, on 04/13/2008, -5/+6It wasn't stupid.
- HotSaucePanCake, on 04/13/2008, -1/+1ya taking responsibility for your own actions is difficult isn't it... did your parents nurture you enough?
- Ihatenicks, on 04/13/2008, -10/+3For a long time now, I have been pretty Anti-American.. well, that should actually be Anti-American political structure, but it can be difficult to separate the people from it's country's actions, especially when it's [i]supposed[/i] to be the people in control (ideally).
However... I LIKE OBAMA, I feel that his direction is refreshing and that his calm actions during this dirty election have been nothing less than exemplary and shows a character that has been missing from politics for a very long time...and if he is to be considered 'out of touch' by the rich and the political elite, that this bodes very well for the American general public.
I look forwards to seeing America, and her people, through the same eyes of, compatriotism and respect, though which I once saw.
GOOD LUCK, AMERICA... you finally have your chance.- rolf, on 04/13/2008, -1/+3Obama may seem okay, but I'd rather discuss policy. His are well-intentioned, but I don't think they are the type that will make us economically competitive with the world again.
- Ihatenicks, on 04/13/2008, -2/+0What would you rather have ...economic competitiveness, which is really only jargon and a frame of mind that suits the the greedy and materialistic, or the beginning of your freedoms back and your once burgeoning world respect?
At this particular juncture in your societal evolution, you simply can't have both.- eryximachus, on 04/13/2008, -0/+31) Americans have more freedom than anyone else in the world. Anyone who says differently has a materialistic, hedonistic definition of freedom that is not grounded in political philosophy.
2) Economic competitiveness has been the cornerstone of America since it was founded. It is not your place to question that now. Maybe you mean you don't like free trade, our corrupt banking system, or a host of other real issues. Those do nothing but HARM our competitiveness however. Be clear.
- eryximachus, on 04/13/2008, -0/+31) Americans have more freedom than anyone else in the world. Anyone who says differently has a materialistic, hedonistic definition of freedom that is not grounded in political philosophy.
- Ihatenicks, on 04/13/2008, -2/+0What would you rather have ...economic competitiveness, which is really only jargon and a frame of mind that suits the the greedy and materialistic, or the beginning of your freedoms back and your once burgeoning world respect?
- eryximachus, on 04/13/2008, -0/+2But I LIKE CARE BEARS. They are so bright, and cheerful, and refreshing. When the I cower at the thought of the another incompetent democrat raising my taxes, confiscating my guns, and parroting liberal professors of ethics everywhere, my Care Bears just provide such calm. Unlike Obama, my care bears don't receive millions of dollars from the rich and political elite. They were also educated at Sunshine University a happy place for common folk, not Harvard - the den of inquity from which which almost every evil politician has ever come. This bodes very well for the American general public.
I look forward to seeing the American people through the rainbow of goodness that emanates from the tummies of the Care Bears.
- rolf, on 04/13/2008, -1/+3Obama may seem okay, but I'd rather discuss policy. His are well-intentioned, but I don't think they are the type that will make us economically competitive with the world again.
- googeling, on 04/13/2008, -2/+3Quick News:
Obama attacked by 200 millionaires - jkmerr, on 04/13/2008, -5/+10I'm an independent voter with very dearly and deeply held religious convictions and strong opinions against gun control. (I'm a committed Catholic with all that implies, and I believe that the founding fathers intended the second amendment to protect the rights of the individual to defend himself against government tyranny when all else fails.) I've read Barack Obama's books, and frankly I think he has an agnostic streak in him, despite posturing to the contrary. Furthermore, it's just a plain fact that he's a staunch advocate for gun control; and I don't think that he really understands how deeply ingrained firearms are in the culture out here in rural America. I don't find the statement at the heart of all this controversy surprising from Mr. Obama surprising, even if they are a bit disheartening.
However, I (tentatively) intend to vote for him, despite the issues I disagree with him on. Mr. Obama is willing to talk about issues like these frankly and honestly. The other candidates can't even come close to his candor. And after reading what he's had to say in "The Audacity of Hope" I believe that he truly does make an effort to understand the people on the other side of the aisle and find a common ground. (BTW, I've read a couple of John McCain's books as well, notable "Worth Fighting For" and I detect no such conciliatory tone.)
Barack Obama might not have the best grip on rural culture, but right now we're facing some rather large national emergencies, many of which have gotten to where they are because our politicians are afraid to address them. Hopefully, my fellow Americans will see past all this noise being generated by the Clintons and John McCain.- kingmanic, on 04/13/2008, -3/+3Realistically: A well armed militia is not going to resist the US government for long so the founding fathers intentions are completely moot. Without an external backer few western or even powerful nations can be swayed by a well armed militia. The entire idea is one of many fairy tales American's buy into. While I'm fairly certain that removing all guns or even cataloging all guns would have a serious effect on the murder rate I think the whole gun fetish America has is silly and unhealthy as well.
Also there seems to be an odd compartmentalization with Christians of all stripes. anti-contraception = mildly pro-life.anti-Abortion=pro-life. Pro-gun = moderately anti-life. Pro-death penalty = very anti life. It seems many Christians see absolutely no contradictions holding those all four positions within their belief system.- jkmerr, on 04/13/2008, -2/+4I submit the current fiasco in Iraq as evidence that well armed resistance can resist the US government very effectively.
Also, I oppose the death penalty as an affront to human dignity.
I know this is the Digg echo chamber, but perhaps that sort of flip and sweeping statement against things that a lot of Americans hold very dear could be one of the reasons Hillary Clinton and John McCain are finding such fertile ground for attacking Obama as an elitist? You know, getting all us small-town hicks who aren't nearly as enlightened as you on the defensive to begin with?- kingmanic, on 04/13/2008, -0/+1The problem with this is the moderately armed Iraqi militia simply have to win a PR war in a country that started off hating the Americans and Americans which were already skittish on their invasion. A domestic incident would require much more. You do know the kill rate in iraq are extremely one sided and the key reason for a pull out is because there was virtually no reason to go there. The invasion also operates on a skeleton crew for Domestic PR reasons and this is partially to blame on the massive failure the war is.
- kingmanic, on 04/13/2008, -0/+1PS. You only stated catholic + pro gun but many "conservatives" hold all 4 views. I also didn't accuse you of being a hick and I'm not American so many of the things Americans hold dear simply puzzle us (the whole Gun thing).
- jolifam77, on 04/13/2008, -0/+1Guns, first and foremost, are for peace of mind. Americans got started basically as frontiers people whether on the east coast or west coast, and had to deal with savages. Having a gun in the house for self-defense was the difference between life and death for many. Our society still harbors its share of savages (so it's not just cultural), the sane still need arms for protection--if not peace of mind.
- methos75, on 04/13/2008, -0/+0I think the basic difference though in those four is that being pro-Gun and pro-death penalty eqauls more to the presevation of innocent Life while abortion is the taking of an innocent life, that is what many sadly seem to realize when they use this blanket arguement. I see nothing wrong with a homeowner using a gun to kill an intruder that was threating their spouse or kids, as a parent and spouse that is what we are suppose to do. I also see no issue in using the death sentence to rid society of an menance, and one that has been proven to never be able to live in normal society without being a danger to others. That is totally different from abortion in which an innocent live that has never done harm is wiped out, I can understand the use of abortion in cases that have medical implications and possibly rape, but abortions in which some 12 year old idiot got knocked up because she decided to have sex, or the stupid college girls that use it as a form of birth control, etc should never be allowed. As to birth control, I have never really seen anyone against it too be honest.
- jkmerr, on 04/13/2008, -2/+4I submit the current fiasco in Iraq as evidence that well armed resistance can resist the US government very effectively.
- proliance, on 04/13/2008, -2/+3@jkmerr: As a Catholic you must be aware of Obama's statement that if his young daughter were to become pregnant, she should not be "punished" by having a baby. The man is more for killing unborn babies than any other politician I am aware of.
- jkmerr, on 04/13/2008, -0/+0You are of course, correct. However, Obama has at least acknowledged that the central issue is "the personhood of the fetus." Most "pro-choice" types usually just resort to name-calling and making out like the abortion debate is just about men trying to control women's bodies. While I deeply and vehemently disagree with Mr Obama's position on abortion, I have hopes that he will try to find some common ground with his opponents on this and a lot of issues. That basic difference, the willingness to at least acknowledge the other guy's point of view and hopefully cooperate to work out ideological disparities is, I think, important enough to the future of our republic that I feel compelled to overlook even his support of abortion.
- Argentian, on 04/13/2008, -0/+0I'm so very sorry for you.
- jkmerr, on 04/14/2008, -0/+0Er. . . would you care to explain why, perhaps?
- kingmanic, on 04/13/2008, -3/+3Realistically: A well armed militia is not going to resist the US government for long so the founding fathers intentions are completely moot. Without an external backer few western or even powerful nations can be swayed by a well armed militia. The entire idea is one of many fairy tales American's buy into. While I'm fairly certain that removing all guns or even cataloging all guns would have a serious effect on the murder rate I think the whole gun fetish America has is silly and unhealthy as well.
- imacbook, on 04/13/2008, -0/+7It's not 200 millionaires, it's 2 hundred millionaires, as in two people with more than 100 million dollars dollars.
- Argentian, on 04/13/2008, -0/+0That comment to a black woman, "YOU GO GIRL" is so patronizing. Besides being so passe (if WaWa Walters says it, it must be passe).
- p0s3r, on 04/13/2008, -8/+10Where's the part about him saying the ignorant yokels are against free-trade because they're bitter, yet Obamessiah himself is against free trade. Reconcile that one diggfags.
- d3mag0gu3, on 04/13/2008, -4/+5It's obamafags or obamabots. I'm willing to bet that at least 75% are mindless drones whose brained got commandeered during one of Obama's speeches.
- Tanishh, on 04/13/2008, -2/+3Except that he said anti trade, not anti free trade. In other words, pro protectionism, high tariffs, etc., and in favor of keeping other countries out of our economy as much as possible. Obama is pro trade but only if it doesn't put American jobs at risk and shaft us, he is not protectionist by any means and he lays that out very clearly in his latest book.
- btools, on 04/13/2008, -4/+1Have a look - http://www.obamabackground.com
- munen123, on 04/13/2008, -2/+3screw the millionaires, they are out of touch, ***** them
- HotSaucePanCake, on 04/13/2008, -0/+2Generalizing is good, it shows how smart you are.
- Argentian, on 04/13/2008, -0/+0At least how blind...
- HotSaucePanCake, on 04/13/2008, -0/+2Generalizing is good, it shows how smart you are.
- malanic, on 04/13/2008, -0/+4I still think he's the best candidate and this is just a small hiccup, but for once can't you guys just digg up an unbiased report of an incident, without having all the sugar coated pro-Obama spin attached?
Even the bad news for Obama comes from an opinionated piece that devotes most of it's space attacking Hillary and McCain, and god forbid anyone who has the audacity to actually be offended by his comments.
Of course I'm just another idiot who's full of ***** like everyone else who doesn't go along with the mob. - dime, on 04/13/2008, -4/+7I'm not even sure what the "mistake" was. Poor people with little hope cling to things like religion and community (in the narrow sense like race and citizenship). This is not only true in this country but in every country on earth.
Seems to me the only "mistake" was that he spoke about a truth people are uncomfortable with. That's sad.- nalimca, on 04/13/2008, -0/+2I am sure some are bitter and some are opmistic. As politicians, both HRC and BHO are just playing cards to get on top. How could any candidate make all voters happy?
There's no mistake as long as it helps the poll numbers.
- nalimca, on 04/13/2008, -0/+2I am sure some are bitter and some are opmistic. As politicians, both HRC and BHO are just playing cards to get on top. How could any candidate make all voters happy?
- RC155, on 04/13/2008, -0/+4The suffering (or bitterness) is talked about in our Declaration of Independence "
...all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. ...." - Anisotropic, on 04/13/2008, -3/+5Obama talks about issues alright. Any idiot can do that. Only thing is he has not ideas or solutions.
What are his values? The only thing I can glean from his website is that we wants to tax and send money.
Do any of the Obama fans sprouting opinions on Digg create jobs or employ people. It is also interesting to note that Obama's advisers are all academics or government hacks. Not people who create wealth (in the economics sense).- Stan57, on 04/13/2008, -1/+1His values? How about ours,allowing a candidate that has used coke to run for the greatest and most powerful office in the world says allot of the values of our country! Anyone that has read his book can see that he is a raciest also. It will be a very sad day if he is elected our president
- Cyberen, on 04/13/2008, -0/+1That's the populist angle, hear what the people are worried about, say it back to them so they think the candidate "gets it" and then do nothing about it. Thankfully you are one of a few who won't buy this BS.
- kerowack, on 04/13/2008, -2/+7McCain's not personally even close to being as rich as Hillary. And his wife's inheritance is protected by a pre-nup. The majority of his income is his $150,000 US Senate salary and his $60,000 US Navy pension.
- inverselogic, on 04/13/2008, -2/+0So he makes about as much as a doctor for being a lazy fat *****?
- Anisotropic, on 04/13/2008, -1/+2It is bleeding obvious that people are bitter. What monumental truth is Obama disclosing? NOTHING.
What people want to know is the solutions he has in mind. Only more goverment spending and regulations. Anyone with experience knows that more goverment money means more corruption. Any number of laws will not prevent that. We already see that with the campaign finance laws which has not reduced spending.
Our education crisis is evident. Reading comprehension and critical thinking is glaringly absent in most of the pro-Obama posts. They sound just like the unthinking emotional religious sheep on the right. - AvangionQ, on 04/13/2008, -1/+2"The irony about all the `outrage` that's being manufactured over this statement is that it's coming exclusively from out-of-touch rich people who are making the assumption that this is something small-town Pennsylvanians should be offended by. I have yet to see a single quote from an actual small-town Pennsylvanian who has taken offense to Obama's statement." ... to the Republicans in Democrats clothing, including all the rich fat cats that this story is addressing, you might want to take the advice of one Bill Maher: "If your fake outrage hard-on lasts more than 72 hours, well, you might want to seek medical attention."
- Argentian, on 04/13/2008, -0/+0Then you sure as hell haven't read enough. Quoting Bill Maher is the giveaway that you ARE so out of touch you'd use a lying sack of dog grunt to try and make a point...no matter how lacking in comedic content.
- nalimca, on 04/13/2008, -2/+1let me mince the words a little bit: Income =/= net worth. The Clitons are not millionaires yet. They have ~34 mils according to cnn.
- nalimca, on 04/13/2008, -0/+1Sorry, I meant to say hundred-millionaires.
- withears, on 04/13/2008, -2/+1200 millionaires? 2 guys for 100+ million? What? Buried for bad dashing.
- Hillsbottom, on 04/13/2008, -5/+5i hope obama loses just to annoy everyone digg (im certainly not voting for him)
- HotSaucePanCake, on 04/13/2008, -0/+1Ditto, accept we would have to deal with another 4-8 years of people bitching and moaning
- johnnyfistfight, on 04/13/2008, -0/+1Their bitching and moaning is music to my ears.
- HotSaucePanCake, on 04/13/2008, -0/+1Ditto, accept we would have to deal with another 4-8 years of people bitching and moaning
- zer0ized, on 04/13/2008, -1/+1I think it was a bad choice of words, but there is certainly some truth in it. Hillary Clinton and John McCain are the ones who are really out of touch, however.
