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Romney Refuses To Call Waterboarding Torture, Says He'll Consult Blackwater

thinkprogress.org — During tonight ’s GOP debate, a questioner asked the candidates why they refuse to call waterboarding torture. Romney said that before making such a determination, he would need to get “counsel on a matter of this nature” from “a lot” of people. One of the people with whom Romney said he would specifically like to speak? Blackwater's Cofer Black.

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  • mightydavefish, on 11/29/2007, -15/+265In other news, the GOP will be asking paedophiles if it's wrong to ***** children.
    • FredFredrickson, on 11/29/2007, -6/+76So they'd be conducting the poll inside the party?
      • EditorResponse, on 11/29/2007, -23/+1No they have to poll Democrats. Didn't you get the joke? The party to lesbos, queers, steers and all other animals is the Democratic party...now take the tape off your ass and let the gerbil out already!
        • Corvidae, on 11/29/2007, -1/+4That's what gets me, LGBT people nearly always vote Democratic, yet there are very few if any LGBT Democrats. On the other hand, republicans keep getting outed on a regular basis. Is it only the repressed gays that turn into republicans?
        • petewiz, on 11/30/2007, -0/+5Larry Craig was in what party again? And James E. West? And what party was supported by Ted Haggard?
          Damn, the Republicans is the party of closet freaks!
        • DavidGX, on 11/30/2007, -0/+3For someone so against "queers" you do seem to be pretty butthurt about the whole thing.
    • bovox, on 11/29/2007, -0/+13They would probably say that they would seek out counsel from a variety of sources before they could answer the question.
      • williamdyer, on 11/29/2007, -2/+13And they would take "wide stance" on the answer.
    • DangerCollie, on 11/29/2007, -2/+12More Republican retirements to be announced soon, followed by a train wreck in '08.
  • MadKennyP, on 11/29/2007, -18/+13Romney believes legal interpretations should not be the purview of private companies? Holy f**k.
    • MadKennyP, on 11/29/2007, -0/+38"should NOW be ..." Sorta got that completely backwards.
    • FredFredrickson, on 11/29/2007, -2/+14Proofreading FTW
  • pedrovoltaire, on 11/29/2007, -8/+80waterboarding is not torture! i've been waterboarded over a hundred times... it builds charachter and puts hairs on your chest.
    • CondoleezzaRice, on 11/29/2007, -3/+20it puts the lotion on the skin
      • pedrovoltaire, on 11/29/2007, -4/+3it puts the ***** lotion in the basket!
        • mightydavefish, on 11/29/2007, -4/+2You've seen the Greenskeeper's "Lotion" video, haven't you?
        • Lukesed, on 11/30/2007, -0/+2Erm no, he's seen "The Silence of the Lambs", winner of 5 oscars in 1991.
    • gijoel, on 11/30/2007, -0/+1It also gives you hydrophobia, but who gives a ***** about that anyway.
      • sgtbutterscotch, on 11/30/2007, -0/+1Unless you have hydrophilia to begin with.
    • skulljar, on 11/30/2007, -0/+1I strongly prefer ironing boards myself.
    • cmapes2, on 11/30/2007, -0/+1You forgot:

      /scarcasm
  • khail250, on 11/29/2007, -6/+34thats like asking Hitler on torture... or Bush what he's doing to the US Constitution, or our rights
  • tpearl, on 11/29/2007, -29/+4"Says He'll Consult Blackwater".........Good hell, there is plenty of things to slam on this guy but don't stretch it out to ridiculous *****.
  • FredFredrickson, on 11/29/2007, -2/+54He'll consult Blackwater? Is that supposed to be some sort of joke? *sigh*
    • NCSUspoon, on 11/29/2007, -0/+6The only reason anyone has ever even heard of Blackwater is because they were in a scandal. In other words, he will only consult people if they are scandal worthy material.
  • kirtap, on 11/29/2007, -3/+47He also said he doesn't think a presidential candidate should divulge what tactics he may or may not use to gain information, etc.

    A presidential candidate SHOULD be telling the American public those kinds of things, these guys have it all wrong...
  • wayne2222, on 11/29/2007, -3/+22My girlfriend and I waterboard each other on lazy Sunday mornings. Beats that tantric stuff. If you want real torture, try holding your orgasm for 5 hours.
  • Rustiga, on 11/29/2007, -17/+1Go go I'm all for torture!
  • rocket777, on 11/29/2007, -2/+8Don't you know, Water boarding is a government Top Secret program, he can't let our enemy combatants know if we use this technique, Oh, he'd tell us, but it's just a national security issue, like say the Manhattan project. Can't let the cat out of the bag here.
  • TwoKill, on 11/29/2007, -1/+24Can we waterboard Romney right after we finish with one of the Bush girls?
    • bulkhater, on 11/29/2007, -0/+6Please be aware that the statement you just made will be interpreted as a terrorist threat.
      And I'll probably be accused of aiding the enemy for telling you that.
  • fractalman, on 11/29/2007, -0/+48Romney says stupid crap like this because he does not know the constitution. He is not qualified to be the president of a home owner's association, and certainly not of the United States.
    • JigsawX, on 11/29/2007, -1/+6Its sure did not stop Bush winning Twice.Now who's is stupid?
      • dondara, on 11/29/2007, -0/+5But does Romney know anybody at Diebold? That seems to be the key to the white house.
    • robberry, on 11/29/2007, -1/+4I disagree. I think Romney *is* qualified to be the president of a home owner's association.
    • HanSolo69, on 11/29/2007, -0/+2You obviously haven't paid attention to the new lowered standards we have these days.
    • doktorzee, on 11/29/2007, -0/+1LOL!!
    • Tearlock, on 11/30/2007, -0/+2Uuuh, the Homeowner's association would actually be a good fit. Considering how much they trample on people's property rights.
  • lazloman, on 11/29/2007, -0/+6Would you buy a used car from this guy? Or anyone of them, for that matter.
    • SinisterBunni, on 11/29/2007, -2/+3I wouldn't buy and cup of coffee from any one of these *****. I respect McCain's perspective on torture but the rest of his ideas are pretty much *****. The rest of em you could put in a bag and throw in the river to drown.
    • SillyDigger, on 11/29/2007, -0/+2...depends on the price and condition of the car, I don't listen to salesmen yipyap.
  • squeezer, on 11/29/2007, -0/+8Next up: The Romney administration appoints Hitler to head up the Affirmative Action bureau and Department of Diversity.
  • momsshizzle, on 11/29/2007, -34/+0People are weird. Waterboarding is NOT torture.
    • jzen, on 11/29/2007, -0/+19You do know that waterboarding is different from surfing, right?
    • LeRenard, on 11/29/2007, -0/+15My abridged OED says "Torture: anguish: extreme mental distress". "Simulating Drowning" seems to fit that bill to me.
      • aduzik, on 11/30/2007, -0/+1Except there's nothing simulated about it. I'm tired of the media calling it that. It is drowning. If they don't stop, your lungs will fill with water and you will die. That makes it even more barbaric.
    • adamwho, on 11/29/2007, -1/+15Then why has the US tried (and convicted) people as war criminals post WWII for waterboarding?
      • Monk22, on 11/29/2007, -6/+1source or no cookie
        • hawkspur, on 11/30/2007, -0/+3In 1947, a Japanese officer named Yukio Asano was convicted of waterboarding a US Civilian during World War II. He was sentenced to 15 years of hard labor. It's a matter of public record.
          • Monk22, on 11/30/2007, -1/+1fair enough thats why i asked no reason to digg me down for asking.
    • stribs, on 11/30/2007, -0/+0You're so right, momshizzle. It's not torture. It's more like Pilates or something, right? Maybe you can enroll in a class for it at the Y? Maybe you should. And then let us know if you still think it's not torture.
  • ricardo53, on 11/29/2007, -3/+11Maybe he'll find someone else to help him.
    Maybe BlackWater?
    That was a joke. Ha Ha. Fat Chance.
  • dwninjungleland, on 11/29/2007, -23/+3Sensationalist crap, once again...
    Please STOP putting words in the candidates mouths if you ever want to be taken seriously.
    The guy is his advisor-- OBVIOUSLY he's going to get ADVICE from him. douchebag.
    It's not like he has blackwater programmed into his iphone and calls them up when he runs into trouble.
    I consider myself a pretty liberal person, and seeing this like this makes me sick, 'cuz writing something like this is just as bad as the stuff you accuse 'them' of doing. If you want your candidate to get elected, then give me a good reason. Don't make up crap about another one.
    • awtripp, on 11/29/2007, -0/+14His advisor heads up Blackwater, I don't see what is made up about that. It's the fact that he chose the sociopath from Blackwater to be his adviser that's pissing people off. Romney chose to make him his adviser, it's not like they drew names out of a hat and Romney got stuck with Cofer Black. You appoint advisers because you trust their judgment; the fact that Romney thinks Cofer, who only cares about killing and money, will give him a fair judgment on waterboarding is a little disturbing.
    • hummingbird, on 11/29/2007, -0/+10For me the big revelation here isn't that he's consulting his advisor on counterterrorism, it's that his advisor is Cofer Black.

      And i don't think it's common knowledge. I follow american politics pretty closely and i had no idea. Even blackwater should be a bigger story than it is imo. I'll digg it just in the hope that the Romney-Blackwater association is more widely known.
  • dagnabbit, on 11/29/2007, -8/+3FTA: "Romney is also relying on a man for torture advice who in 2001, infamously ordered a CIA agent to “Capture Bin Laden, kill him and bring his head back in a box on dry ice,” and once promised put the “heads” of terrorists in Afghanistan “on sticks“

    Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't have much of a problem with this statement. Sure waterboarding is torture, but bin Laden's head on a stick? No sweat off my sack.
    • bovox, on 11/29/2007, -6/+2Yeah. I wouldn't mind Bin Laden's head on a stick either. In case ya'll forgot, Bin Laden is a Grade A a**hole.
      • dondara, on 11/29/2007, -1/+2A lot of rich Saudi's are. Maybe we shouldn't have been doing business with them all these years. Oh wait, we weren't ...it was that traitor BUSH helping the enemies of this(US) country.
      • JEAH, on 11/29/2007, -0/+3wow, thanks for clearing that up. Idiot lefties like myself sometime get confused and think bin laden is our personal hero.
      • Tearlock, on 11/30/2007, -0/+1Bin Laden is dead dude. The last video was dubbed over old footage and choppily cut together. The CIA is giving false intelligence to provoke fear so we can continue to pursue control of US oil interests.
    • tehnico, on 11/29/2007, -0/+7Hmmm, so what did bin laden to to deserve this response? He funded groups. He's a money man, nothing more. He doesn't fly planes or chop off heads. He gives people money to do these things. He in an enabler. How is the crime of enabling any different than, oh I don't know, say when the cia funds terrorist organizations to rape and mutilate men women and children in small banana republic nations, or the middle east? By everyones logic, the US/Bin laden/Saddam/Iran/Terrorist De Jour all quack like the same duck.

      Now is it sweat of your sack? That the person who represents you (if not your interests) is as atrocious?
    • openpaledot, on 11/30/2007, -0/+0Except you have to be reminded that those like Romney and Cofer Black think everyone in Gitmo is automatically an al-Qaeda terrorist on par with Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. If we can detain and torture so many people without proving these connections then I sure as hell don't want some guy demanding we start chopping all their heads off and making shishkabobs out of anyone who gets detained.
    • LeeSoong, on 12/01/2007, -0/+1The old "Head on a Stick" thing is just a return to Compassionate Conservatism.

      It's worked for many other cultures throughout the history of humankind.
  • trubey, on 11/29/2007, -0/+9He's just being your everyday politician, never giving a straight answer and trying to leave statements as open as possible to secure more voters.
    • MrESaulved, on 11/29/2007, -0/+2Yes, but as we can see that will not work any more. Too many people, like you, see through that insulting tactic. As dumb as people are, they are getting smarter faster. Mitt Romney will never be President of the Untied States since no one wants to vote for him.
      • Xinareiaz, on 11/30/2007, -0/+2People are not getting smarter faster, people who own a computer and are willing to post rational political comments on digg are already going to be smarter than the a lot of people. The next generation will be taught by such a failure of a school system...I don't want to be around when they are expected to take up the reigns of society.
  • Shaman760, on 11/29/2007, -1/+16Pretty soon these idiots will be waterboarding their children when they do wrong. I'd like to see that play out in the legalities.
    Judge in court- "Sir, you waterboarded your child"
    Father- "Yes, it's legal according to the Attorney General and most major presidential candidates"
    Judge- "Well I suppose you're right. Carry on".
    • bulkhater, on 11/29/2007, -1/+3With spanking being illegal in many states, this may be the only avenue parents have left for actually disciplining children. I wonder if you can buy a child sized home water boarding kit...
  • trevorjez, on 11/29/2007, -1/+9by saying he'll consult blackwater he really means he consult those golden plates only joseph smith could read...and see.
    • LeRenard, on 11/29/2007, -4/+4Do you get all your political commentary from South Park or do you watch Family Guy too?
    • robberry, on 11/29/2007, -1/+3Dum dum dum dum dum!
    • bulkhater, on 11/29/2007, -0/+4I don't know why folks keep harping on his religion yet completely ignore the fact that about 90% of the people in the state where he used to be Governor HATE his GUTS. He was a crummy governor.
      • Xinareiaz, on 11/30/2007, -0/+1really? I thought he like, fixed the states budget problems.
  • Ragnoir, on 11/29/2007, -0/+9Well let's do it to him and see if he calls it torture
  • madmaxmedia, on 11/29/2007, -0/+13Waterboarding aside, this is a pathetic response from a presidential candidate this far into the race. If he doesn't have an opinion by now on a huge hot-button topic, on what basis are we supposed to decide whether to vote for him or not?
    Actually, his non-answer speaks volumes to me. Later in the article:
    "Romney has repeatedly dodged answering questions during debates, instead saying he needs to consult with his advisers before taking a stand. During an October CNBC debate, Romney said that before figuring out if he’d need congressional approval to invade Iran, he’d have to ask his lawyers: “You sit down with your attorneys and tell you what you have to do.”
    I guess all he's got left to campaign on are good-old family values and stuff, who cares about the actually issues and problems of the world. It's really convenient to talk about principles and such, without having to go into how you intend to use them to deal with the nitty gritty problems of the real world.
    Simply horrible.
    • Gunsdead, on 11/29/2007, -1/+2Ideology v.s. reality, true enough, its easy to talk the talk but a true measure of a leader is walking the walk.
      • williamdyer, on 11/29/2007, -1/+1McCain walked the walk. Now tell me what's wrong with his unequivocal position on waterboarding?
        • MrESaulved, on 11/29/2007, -0/+2McCain has nothing to do with what he said. Nor is McCain Presidential either, so thanks for reminding us of that. Waterboarding is torture, no one disagrees on that subject. Except those who want to waterboard, i.e. torture other people. Funny how that works?
        • BlacklabelSAR, on 11/29/2007, -0/+4Your are correct. McCain actually gave an honest answer to that question. It was unusual in this climate.
          • Gunsdead, on 11/30/2007, -0/+0The discussion was about Romney, not McCain - I wasn't taking issue with his stance on the subject. It was the "Waffle Factory" of Romney spouting out ideological sound bites with no clue on how that translates in the real world sans legal advice as madmaxmedia made the point about. Cheers
  • ruyn, on 11/29/2007, -3/+10Yes, I do agree he skirted away from this question, but isn't amazing how Anderson Cooper pounded him on this question and also on the question about gays and lesbians in the army. I think we all remember when Hillary got asked a question by Tim Russert about policy that she didn't like. She whined and complained about how the Russert was being mean to her. If Hillary got asked those questions like Romney did she would be all over the news complaining about how life isn't fair. I don't even like Romney but it is just ridiculous how Clinton gets a free pass on everything.
    • bulkhater, on 11/29/2007, -0/+2"But.. But. Clinton!!!!"
    • BlacklabelSAR, on 11/29/2007, -1/+2I haven't run across anyone who likes Hillary. The Clintons are part of the Bush club.
    • aduzik, on 11/30/2007, -0/+1Agreed. Who the hell is saying they'd vote for Hillary in all these stupid polls?
  • VladmirPutin, on 11/29/2007, -1/+6Waterboarding is fine, we do it all the time in Russia.
  • steve693, on 11/29/2007, -1/+28Congressional Consent to invade a country: "Uhh, I'd ask my lawyers."
    Waterboarding as Torture: "Uhh, I'll ask Cofer Black."
    Openly Gay Men in the Military: "My name is Mitt Romney, and I'm too scared to answer that question."

    Romney is spineless. I'd love to see someone ask him about his magic Mormon underwear, see how much he chokes up then.
    • rootnik, on 11/29/2007, -0/+5He really choked up over the bible question, which is horrible for Mormons.

      I used to go to a Mormon chruch. These a good people who do believe in the bible. They use the bible in their church sessions more than their book of mormon, that they also believe is the word of god. He got choked up on a question that a 19 year old mormon missionary answers on a daily basis. I found it pathetic...
      • williamdyer, on 11/29/2007, -0/+7I have met Mitt Romney, and I know he is smart enough that he has only himself to blame. It should have gone like this: "Waterboarding is torture. We prosecuted war criminals for waterboarding. We won't be criminals in the way we fight terrorists." How hard is that?

        Waterboarding is like Abu Ghraib: It's illegal. We punish the people who did it. Done. Anybody who can't think in those terms is too weak to be president.
  • dbixler, on 11/29/2007, -7/+1He wasn't asked if he'd PERFORM waterboarding, only if he thought that waterboarding was torture. In my mind, he simply dodged the question (which, I suppose, was his intention). I guess he felt that saying waterboarding was torture was admitting that he'd never USE waterboarding as a means for getting answers from an American Citizen... errr... I mean terrorist.
  • rootnik, on 11/29/2007, -2/+5Romney was my 2nd favorite Republican candidate until I watched the debate last night. There is no way he or Rudy gets the nomination. These 2 are going to beat the hell out of each other and Huckabee is going to end up stealing the show.

    I still think Paul will end up running as an independent if/when he does not get the nomination, no matter how hard he denies it.
    • chix0r, on 11/30/2007, -0/+1I agree. I was totally blown away by Huckabee's confidence and answers during the debate, while Rudy and Mitt made me gag.

      However Paul will always be overrated in my book.
  • Depthfunction, on 11/29/2007, -0/+14I thought Romney did a horrible job in last night's debate. He just wouldn't give a straight answer to any question. His low point came when the audience booed him after he refused to own up to his previous statement about supporting gays in the military.

    How come the same people who lambasted John Kerry as a flip-flopper are now supporting this joker? Romney makes Kerry look like a stubborn, unwavering dogmatist.
    • petewiz, on 11/30/2007, -0/+1"How come the same people who lambasted John Kerry as a flip-flopper are now supporting this joker?"
      Welcome to American politics. Things don't really work right around here.
  • kurtwinter, on 11/29/2007, -0/+13I'm glad the Christian Right can produce someone who is so moral that he can't answer a question about torture without consultation.
    • TsuruchiBrian, on 11/30/2007, -0/+2This reminds of someone I know who once said that
      "American Born Again Evangelical Christians have become more Christian than Jesus"

      ...I realize he's a mormon
  • designer, on 11/29/2007, -14/+1Waterboarding is not torture. Tasers have killed more people than waterboarding.
    • WoollyMittens, on 11/29/2007, -1/+5The whole point of torture is NOT to kill the subject, but traumatize them into complacency.
    • robberry, on 11/29/2007, -1/+6On what basis do you claim that waterboarding is not torture?
      • Btzarro, on 11/29/2007, -1/+4On the claim hes a braindead right-wing loon.
  • tehnico, on 11/29/2007, -0/+11To summarize/paraphrase, "I am against torture, and I refuse to define what that means."
  • adwarereport, on 11/29/2007, -2/+6I had respect for Romney until last night, when he made it clear he's a flip-flopping douchebag who will shamelessly speak out of both sides of his mouth to get a vote. He's WAY worse than Giuliani IMO.
    • rootnik, on 11/29/2007, -0/+6I wouldn't say he is WAY worse than Rudy... but they are on the same level of flip-flopping douchbaggyness.
      • williamdyer, on 11/29/2007, -0/+2Rudy hangs out with worse people. Bernie Kerrik? Ewww.
    • wishninja, on 11/29/2007, -0/+5until last night? god what took you so long?!
  • NCSUspoon, on 11/29/2007, -0/+9In other words, he will only consult with people he can pay to agree with him?
  • THE4IRON, on 11/29/2007, -1/+6I've said it before, I'll say it again.
    DOUCHEBAG
    • pyroblue, on 11/29/2007, -0/+1I've said it before, I'll say it again.
      MITT ROMNEY IS A JCPENNEY UNDERWEAR MODEL. and stuck in 1953. and a douchebag.
  • luke123, on 11/29/2007, -1/+4Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. (Luke 6:31).
    • WoollyMittens, on 11/29/2007, -0/+5They always claim that doesn't count for non-christians. It's okay to kill, main and torture unbelievers. Only the slightest difference in the particularly brand of christianity is needed to justify the most heinous acts of inhumanity.
      • bulkhater, on 11/29/2007, -1/+2Please do not lump all Christians in with that statement. While many extremists believe just what you've stated, there are still many other Christians, my hope is the majority, who believe the statement applies to all humanity. Jesus said that all people are your neighbor.
        • BlacklabelSAR, on 11/29/2007, -0/+1Take a look at this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sq3ElGdC2fU
          This is real-world Christianity in practice in the USA.
        • mOdQuArK, on 11/29/2007, -0/+1Given your nick, your comment is not exactly convincing.

          From the viewpoint of an agnostic, the "quiet" Christians can claim they don't believe the same crap as the noisy ones, but unless they actively tried to discredit & nullify those noisy bastards, then they're just as complicit in the results as the assholes.
      • Tecton1c, on 11/29/2007, -0/+0Who is "They"? I've never heard a claim like this coming from any Christian, nor have I even heard non-Christians accuse Christians of holding such a belief until now. If it has been said, it's not Biblical...
  • gossipninja, on 11/29/2007, -6/+1i will admit is seemed like a lame move, however i do think that the military should not openly discuss their "playbook". We dont advertise what hours we do what kinds of operations. we dont advertise all our weapons capabilities, any show on military hardware, like helos and planes, they always have parts of the instrument panel covered, so as to not give away certain capabilities. I think if we say yes this is torture, no this is not, then it lessens the options an interrogator has. I think waterboarding is torture, i dont think we should use it, but if is say "maybe" we will waterboard someone, then we can use it as a threat to get needed intelligence info. but if it is stated that "definatly no" on the issue of waterboarding, then we are unable to use it as a threat. It would be like saying the police cant good cop/bad cop. We should not torture, but we should also be able to threaten torture. If the enemy thinks we are serious, they might break, if they know we cant use waterboarding or the stress position, or sleep deprivation, threats of these actions dont work. Only the prez and military should know specifically what is and is not allowed.
    • mirzmaster, on 11/29/2007, -0/+6That seems like a rather insincere position to adopt.

      First of all, this isn't even a playbook question, this is a question of whether you're even in the game or not. Waterboarding isn't so close to decent interrogation techniques that it's a gray region. It's clearly wrong. Romney should've been able to say that without hesitation.

      Now, you're portraying it as a playbook issue and if that's even the case, then as I said, it's still an insincere position to adopt. We should be able to make it plain and clear to friends and enemies alike that we don't believe in violating human rights, and we should be able to live with the consequences of adopting that moral high ground.

      I, for one, as a citizen of a civilized nation, as a fellow human being to *all*, am ready to bear the burden of that civility and humanity.
      • gossipninja, on 11/29/2007, -3/+2you make a valid point, that waterboarding is extreme but i would rather the us play the "gray area" card (even though as you state, it is outside of the gray area for most people) rather then what has happened in the past, and that is to say hand over prisoners to some of our allies who have no problems using any means necessary. If waterboarding was totally off the table, i do not think it would hurt our intelligence efforts, but to go down and check off everything that is and is not acceptable could. If romney wasnt such a tool, he could have made that point clearer. He is snake oil salesman, and i dont trust him, but once you get through his crap it makes sense to not answer, because if he gave a definite answer on this method, others would ask for definite answers on other methods. With any luck this will be a non issue and romney wont get the gop nomination.
        • bulkhater, on 11/29/2007, -1/+4Isn't it fascinating how Right wing extremists will mock and ridicule the Left and Middle for "Moral relativism" yet waffle and flip flop like mad the moment they want to support something vile?
          • gossipninja, on 11/30/2007, -0/+1i agree that right wing extremists do also participate in moral relativism, i guess its a good thing im not a right wing pundit bitching about it. Shooting someone is bad, shooting someone who tries to kill you is perfectly acceptable, same action just different reason, would that not count as moral relativism? Not everything is black and white, there is gray area, and as stated above, i agree waterboarding is extreme and falls out of the gray area for a good majority of people.
  • WoollyMittens, on 11/29/2007, -0/+7Running water into someone's airways *IS* highly traumatizing. If they think it so innocent, why don't they try it themselves?
  • defwheezer, on 11/29/2007, -1/+11If you like Bush, you'll LOVE Romney

    //but seriously, we really can't survive another religious fundamentalist "decider" in chief.
  • HanSolo69, on 11/29/2007, -0/+2I'm sure somebody on all these guys' campaign teams just told them that "waterboarding" is another term for surfing.
  • Jayspring, on 11/29/2007, -0/+4Hear that?? Ssshhhh...listen.
    That's the sound of a political campaign breathing it's final breath.
  • 01l0, on 11/29/2007, -1/+3I'm quite concerned about Romney's campaign combusting and Huckabee getting the nomination. Even though I like Huck far more than Mitt because of his populist attitude, its quite frightening that around 50% of the country would be willing to vote for someone that doesn't know humans are primates.
    • Hizzeh12, on 11/29/2007, -0/+1You're a prime example of the success of our media and the rotten core of our population. " Even though I like Huck far more than Mitt because of his populist attitude" Why does attitude factor in at all? Why don't you take someone's policies into account rather than how they present themselves? For ***** sake this is the future leader of the United States we are talking about. If Kucinich was an ***** I'd still vote for him simply because of his policies.
      • 01l0, on 11/29/2007, -0/+1you are a prime example of an idiot (except for the Kucinich support, thats a position I can get behind). you don't know what populism is, and yet you pretend to be qualified to comment on presidential policy?
    • BlacklabelSAR, on 11/29/2007, -0/+1While not "Officially" a Christian Nation, the US is largely Christian. Many of which are Fundamentalists. Reality, commen sense, science, history, knowledge all contradict Fundamentalism. Therefore knowledge is not popular with many "US Americans". Things they don't understand are preceived as a threat. How many other countries have a Creationism museum? I am personally holding Jesus responsible. I may have to kick his ass over it.
  • gab00n, on 11/29/2007, -0/+1Real spies use chemicals, torture is for the amusement of politicians. What do you think Cheney does when he secretly flies to Iraq?
  • akatsuki, on 11/29/2007, -0/+3So I assume we will not be calling it torture when they do it to our troops in the next conventional war? And we will make restitution for the family of Yukio Asano for his torture sentence for WWII waterboarding?

    And if the LDS denomination was at all interested in morality they would kick his ass out for that evasive lack of taking a moral stand.
    • v0lrath, on 11/30/2007, -0/+1I'm LDS... I completely agree. Mitt Romney is a terrible representative of my church.
  • Cubanperil, on 11/29/2007, -5/+0Hypothetical: If your child was kidnapped by a known murderer/pedophile, would you waterboard that person in an attempt to get information that could lead to your child's rescue? If not, why?
    • rabidsquirrelOG, on 11/29/2007, -0/+3It is wrong, and should never be condoned or authorized by the government under any circumstances. Waterboarding is torture. Torture is torture. Torture is wrong.
      And if that isn't simplified enough for ya, "two 'wrongs' have never, ever made a 'right'". Just because you're chomping at the bit to do it, and you know they probably deserve it, doesn't make it right, and it never will.
      • Cubanperil, on 11/29/2007, -1/+0Maybe if you just answered the question.....
      • Cubanperil, on 11/29/2007, -2/+0Two wrongs have "never, ever" made a right, huh? Like shooting and blowing up our enemies in two world wars, or, like shooting to death sniper Charles Whitman after he shot and killed 13 people at the University of Texas, or, like waterboarding Khalid Sheikh Mohammed (the murderous scumbag who proudly confessed to personally beheading Daniel Pearl) into exposing over a dozen senior Al-Qaeda operatives who were planning terrorist attacks against the west, and were subsequently quashed? Are these the "wrongs" you're referencing?
        • Jayspring, on 11/29/2007, -0/+2You can argue the usefulness and morality of torture til you're blue in the face. It doesn't matter. Unites States LAW as a willing participant in the Geneva Convention makes torture illegal. ILLEGAL. Against the Law. Not legal.
          WTF don't people get about this?
          What you should be asking for is our withdrawal from the Geneva Convention. It's a craptastic notion in the first place to put "rules" around the art of killing people. There can be no such thing as a humanitarian war. The only objective of War is to annihilate another people. The Iraq War is not a War. It is an international police action with guns and bombs.
      • BlacklabelSAR, on 11/29/2007, -0/+1Obviously the correct answer would be to kidnap a member of the kidnapper's family and threaten to kill or rape them, right? Eye for an eye, Old Testament Style. WE become terrorists, that will show them.
        When you dance with the devil, the devil doesn't change, you change.
    • squeekyzebra, on 11/30/2007, -0/+0If not for rabidquirrel's reason. For the record waterboarding is illegal U.S. law and the Geneva convention. So you know just mull that one around in your head.
    • otakushark, on 11/30/2007, -0/+3Hypothetical: The police think that YOU might be a murderer/pedophile. Do you mind if they waterboard you? If so, why?
  • rabidsquirrelOG, on 11/29/2007, -0/+2Title should say something like "Romney Refuses To Call Waterboarding Torture, Refuses to Demonstrate any Moral Integrity"
  • reuscel, on 11/29/2007, -1/+2You know what's torture? These goddamn awful "debates" that CNN keeps excreting into our living rooms.
  • chosenone-, on 11/29/2007, -0/+1LOL!
  • wishninja, on 11/29/2007, -0/+4Nothing new going on in the GOP somehow it didn't bother voters that they were voting for Dick "Haliberton" Cheney twice! I wouldn't be surprised if the GOP nominee selects a blackwater employee as a running mate. Unless of course I get my way and RP gets the nod.
  • rupertmorris, on 11/29/2007, -0/+1So Mitt is a pussy who is afraid to take a stance.
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