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Obama Camp: Problematic if or how to help w/ Hillary's debt
huffingtonpost.com — Many of Obama's grassroots and netroots backers appear to be outraged at the thought that the Obama campaign might step in to lend a hand to get Clinton out of a financial hole -- and out of the race...And further outraged that skunk Mark Penn would be standing in line with his hand out (& his tail up), as Clinton owes Penn a large sum. 'pee-euw'
jforjools- 630 diggs
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- jforjools, on 05/10/2008, -0/+56I'm all for peace in the party. But I think noone should give Hillary a dime for her 'over-investment'--and Penn should also get zip.
But my feelings wouldn't be hurt if Obama helped pay the bill to UCLA for facility use.
***Note to everyone: The article makes it sounds like the money you've already contributed to Obama is *safe* from any such HRC-dealmaking. (sigh of relief.)- thirdcoastborn, on 05/10/2008, -2/+17I agree. I have no problem with the Obama Camp paying the debt of the Hillary Campaign as long as it's towards anything other than Penn and the Clinton's 11.4 million. Pay back UCLA and all other small businesses that were not paid yet.
- paigeinphilly, on 05/10/2008, -1/+29Actually..those guys should take her behind to COURT....period! she has money...why do we have to pick up her dang tab..we didnt make this bill.
Obama/ Webb 2008- hittnrun, on 05/10/2008, -24/+3Hahahahahahahahhhhhhaahaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahahhha
You Obammbots and lib bots are a great source of laughs.- petrodollar, on 05/10/2008, -0/+16People who go though that much effort to convey a sense of laughter are usually trying to mask deep-seated feeings of sorrow.
- hittnrun, on 05/10/2008, -3/+1not really. I just thought it was a funny topic with the usual idiotic posts from the usual idiotic people, so I started the "haha" and just extended it by holding down the "h" key and then the "a" key. Nothing else to it. thanks for your "input" though. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO. Haha!
- kashk5, on 05/10/2008, -1/+12Why? He makes an interesting point. Clinton has the means to pay off her debts, what with her and her husband being multi-millionaires. They should be responsible for paying all their bills. If it means the businesses taking her to court to collect, then so be it.
- petrodollar, on 05/10/2008, -1/+4She's not dumb. I'm sure she's structured the campaign to limit her liability. They might have to take her campaign committee or someone to court, but it's unlikely that they'd get a judgement against her as an individual.
Universities and stadium owners or whoever should stop letter her use their facilities to hold campaign rallies unless she pays up front. - Fordi, on 05/10/2008, -0/+5Poor Hillary. If no one helps her pay her debts, she'll only be a measly five-millionaire. Poor woman.
Hark! A tiny violin! And it's playing the saddest little song ever! - yunus, on 05/10/2008, -2/+3She loaned her campaign money because it is like a corporation. She is in charge of it but she is not personally responsible for the debt. Civilization IV has a great quote for the corporation that I can't find but its something like.
Corporations are designed to maximize individual profit while eliminating individual responsibility. - jforjools, on 05/10/2008, -0/+2Yeah, her campaign is a corporation.
...so she's not responsible for the debt of the corpoation (which currently exceeds $25 million--and could possibly be even higher.)
But if the corporation doesn't have any money to pay off debts--then she would be stuck holding the bag for the $11.4 MIL she has 'loaned' her campaign. - petrodollar, on 05/10/2008, -1/+2"Corporations are designed to maximize individual profit while eliminating individual responsibility."
That's because corporations assume risks that no sane individual would assume. It's very hard to consistently turn a profit without incurring substantial risk, and corporations allow that risk to be spread among a large pool of investors. Without limited liability this would not occur.
- petrodollar, on 05/10/2008, -1/+4She's not dumb. I'm sure she's structured the campaign to limit her liability. They might have to take her campaign committee or someone to court, but it's unlikely that they'd get a judgement against her as an individual.
- hittnrun, on 05/10/2008, -24/+3Hahahahahahahahhhhhhaahaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahahhha
- jforjools, on 05/10/2008, -0/+3Under federal campaign finance law, the Obama campaign cannot directly pay off Clinton's debts, or the $11.43 million she has loaned the campaign, because that would violate campaign contribution limits. But if Obama is the nominee, he and his donor base could provide invaluable help to her in raising money through signed appeals, joint fundraisers and by other methods.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/09/obama-sug ...
- paigeinphilly, on 05/10/2008, -1/+29Actually..those guys should take her behind to COURT....period! she has money...why do we have to pick up her dang tab..we didnt make this bill.
- richmomz, on 05/10/2008, -0/+17Clinton owes Penn a large sum? For what? Finding a way to screw up a seemingly invincible candidacy? The fool didn't even know that democratic primaries were not "winner take all" but rather proportional allocation based, and formed their entire strategy around "winning big states" before realizing that they screwed up. The best stupidity money can buy.
- paigeinphilly, on 05/10/2008, -1/+1Running a smear campaign- millions
To continue said fight-11 million
To lose, possibly get a VP slot & get your bad debts paid- PRICELESS
Obama/Webb 08
- thirdcoastborn, on 05/10/2008, -2/+17I agree. I have no problem with the Obama Camp paying the debt of the Hillary Campaign as long as it's towards anything other than Penn and the Clinton's 11.4 million. Pay back UCLA and all other small businesses that were not paid yet.
- iching, on 05/10/2008, -1/+27No Penn, no Bill or Hillary loans, if it makes peace fine.
I still don't trust the Clintons. - okokokok, on 05/10/2008, -1/+53Mmmmmmmm-no. Sorry. Hit the road bitch. Tell Bill to do some more speeches in Dubai.
- coffeebaby, on 05/10/2008, -1/+16agreed. let the bitch bleed out. nobody told her to use her own money.
- plumcarrot, on 05/10/2008, -8/+2coffeebaby you are a bitch.
- szabel, on 05/10/2008, -6/+0coffee your hostility is only exceeded by your political inexperience. Your rookie candidate needs all the help that he can get both inside and outside the Beltway but you wouldn't understand that would you?
- jforjools, on 05/10/2008, -0/+9Ya gotta figure they (Clintons) can spend an unlimited amount of money on this campaign if they want. The amount of money he makes for some of these 'speeches' is ridiculous. The former prez is a MAJOR int'l lobbyist who gets paid bucco-bucks just for the influence he has.
- richmomz, on 05/10/2008, -0/+9Didn't the Clintons rake in $100 million last year? Why should Obama donors foot the bill for Hillary's irresponsible spending, especially when she is capable of footing the bill herself? No way.
- szabel, on 05/10/2008, -6/+0ok... your hostility is only exceeded by your political inexperience. Your rookie candidate needs all the help that he can get both inside and outside the Beltway but you wouldn't understand that would you?
- Zamyatin, on 05/10/2008, -0/+4Why the ad-hominem attacks? They make you sound as bad as the guy slinging around "bitch". You're right that the Obama campaign can use the help in the beltway, but the question is: Will buying out Hillary's debt be perceived as a good thing (perhaps, within the party) or a bad thing (probably, among independents and left-leaning right wingers who have crossed lines)?
I think a few people on here have made the point that her debt to small businesses and those more "innocent" people who are getting ripped off by her bad campaign finance strategies being paid off would be a pretty kind political move from Obama's campaign. However, paying off the head honchos and major lenders... well, that's her business.
What really amazes me is that campaign finance management ability has not been considered *at all* in this election. I don't get why people have been so supportive of a candidate like Hillary who hasn't been able to keep her *own* core campaigners together, and has created such an upsurge of credit debt to even small businesses, who are supposed to be her dang core constituency?
- Zamyatin, on 05/10/2008, -0/+4Why the ad-hominem attacks? They make you sound as bad as the guy slinging around "bitch". You're right that the Obama campaign can use the help in the beltway, but the question is: Will buying out Hillary's debt be perceived as a good thing (perhaps, within the party) or a bad thing (probably, among independents and left-leaning right wingers who have crossed lines)?
- coffeebaby, on 05/10/2008, -1/+16agreed. let the bitch bleed out. nobody told her to use her own money.
- redcolumbine, on 05/10/2008, -0/+16Clinton just blew her chance (if she ever had any) for any such misplaced magnanimity with an outrageous show of childishness: http://digg.com/2008_us_elections/Clinton_Sends_Le ...
- richmomz, on 05/10/2008, -0/+5They're so broke they can't afford a spellchecker either!
- arbouler, on 05/10/2008, -0/+25if hillary was so damn committed to run for presidency for the sake of americans, why the hell should she feel the need to get her money back if she truly believes hers + bill's money was in fact for the greater good?
she already attained donations from people who believed and trusted in her ideals, she should reciprocate that trust by donating - and not loaning - her own money to her own campaign. in fact, if she really wants her own money back just because she lost the race, she should also give back to everyone who donated for her cause. it's funny how you can ask others to donate for your cause but you can't do the same to your own cause!- Zamyatin, on 05/10/2008, -0/+3This is a bit of a rhetorical question, isn't it? Obviously she's committed to winning the presidency for her own agenda (since that IS her agenda). She makes claims that she's spending money for her own campaign for the greater good of Americans, because its talk like that which wins elections, because people like to hear such altruistic statements, even though they know deep down that it's not entirely true. Obviously, she feels like she's the best for the job, and she believes her way is the Best Way for America, or she wouldn't be running, but her need to win the election to make any of those ideas possible is *her* need.
Your more practical point, though, is still true: Why can a family that pulled in over $100 mil in one year start asking for help from a *competing* campaign to pay off its restaurant bills??
Only in America... - hoodster, on 05/10/2008, -0/+1The spirit of competing and might be loosing your own money in a political race was the ONLY thing I admired on Ross Perot's campaigns. I wrote it on digg before: Nobody cared about his (money) losses because of his private wealth. Nobody would have dreamed that a competitor would have offered him anything to shoulder his 'burden'.
HRC should take responsibility for HER own financial quagmire.
- Zamyatin, on 05/10/2008, -0/+3This is a bit of a rhetorical question, isn't it? Obviously she's committed to winning the presidency for her own agenda (since that IS her agenda). She makes claims that she's spending money for her own campaign for the greater good of Americans, because its talk like that which wins elections, because people like to hear such altruistic statements, even though they know deep down that it's not entirely true. Obviously, she feels like she's the best for the job, and she believes her way is the Best Way for America, or she wouldn't be running, but her need to win the election to make any of those ideas possible is *her* need.
- OrionC, on 05/10/2008, -3/+10Do they mean that the money I donated to Obama will go towards paying Penn? NO WAY! This is blackmail. She's got tons of money of her own and she should pay all her bills out of her pocket. She's got a limit of $25 millon i.e. another $8.5 million. If it is more over that, tough luck. Penn can take her to court is he dares.
- jforjools, on 05/10/2008, -1/+8According to the article, your money is SAFE.
Obama can choose to pay off her debt--but NOT with $ from his already-established election coffers.
- jforjools, on 05/10/2008, -1/+8According to the article, your money is SAFE.
- paigeinphilly, on 05/10/2008, -0/+21So basically this article says that Obama , once nominated he has an option (which is usually practiced by the winner) to help pay down the debts of the losing party?...via fundraising and other means from his own base?.. If I see a email from the Obama camp with a "please donate" link for Hillary....I will "donate" something alright, some advice for her & Penn: EAT DIRT and HIT THE ROAD
- jforjools, on 05/10/2008, -1/+4Yep, if he makes a deal with HRC, he will need to fund it thru NEW funds.
So, just don't donate if it's not your gig. - Fordi, on 05/10/2008, -0/+1Yeah; it would be politic for Obama to do a press conference saying, "Hey, donate to Hillary to help her pay off her debts" - but I doubt he'll get any takers there.
- jforjools, on 05/10/2008, -1/+4Yep, if he makes a deal with HRC, he will need to fund it thru NEW funds.
- SusieK, on 05/10/2008, -0/+15I agree: NO payments from Obama to Clinton. Bill and Hill have plenty of money--"unearned" from unethical speeches that capitalized on all the unpaid work duped volunteers did for HIS campaigns--worked trashed by his enormous selfishness and "libido."
- MrThinkingMan, on 05/10/2008, -7/+26Note to Mr. Obama;
I did not give you my hard-earned funds for you to give it away to Hillary so that she can pay herself back. She used her money to rip this country, the Democratic Party and YOU a new one. I would be very upset if my money paid for any parts of that.- jforjools, on 05/10/2008, -2/+19According to the article, the money you've donated is SAFE.
If Obama does agree to help with some of her debt, he needs to collect that money separately.
(Sigh of relief from his 1.5 million contributors.)- malman4, on 05/10/2008, -14/+2He can buy the nomination with his money, like he did in Illinois...
- elipabst, on 05/10/2008, -0/+7Seriously, you're an idiot. You really think he bought his Illinois senate seat? I'm sure it had nothing to do with the fact that the Republican he was running against withdrew because of the leak of a sex scandal and was replaced at the last minute by Alan Keyes who's never even lived in Illinois. The freaking guy just paid off his student loans not too long ago.
- queotic, on 05/11/2008, -0/+2Yeah, because Obama had so much money when he ran in Illinois. /sarcasm
- malman4, on 05/10/2008, -14/+2He can buy the nomination with his money, like he did in Illinois...
- jforjools, on 05/10/2008, -2/+19According to the article, the money you've donated is SAFE.
- Semirhage527, on 05/10/2008, -0/+27Considering much of this debt is to herself, I don't think anyone should be clamoring to help her pay it back. She's a rich woman, she should be able to afford to donate, not loan, to her campaign if she has so much faith and belief in her cause.
- NoDrama, on 05/10/2008, -1/+6Given FEC rules limiting contributions to campaigns to individuals I don't see how the Obamas can give more than about $4600 to the Clinton campaign.
- jforjools, on 05/10/2008, -1/+2The article discusses the legalities a bit. And yes, it's a very tricky road to traverse, but it can be done.
(But it won't be done with the donations already made to his campaign. Any debt repayment will legally need to be solicited separately.) - jforjools, on 05/10/2008, -0/+2Well, someone's just digging down for providing facts?
From this article (and easily checked out elsewhere):
"Under federal campaign finance law, the Obama campaign cannot directly pay off Clinton's debts, or the $11.43 million she has loaned the campaign, because that would violate campaign contribution limits. But if Obama is the nominee, he and his donor base could provide invaluable help to her in raising money through signed appeals, joint fundraisers and by other
methods."
Also see another new article that fleshes this out some more:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/09/obama-sug ...
Digging down for a fact-statement? Fine. --But fight back with some counter-intelligence. - junkwheel, on 05/10/2008, -1/+2It can be done by using money to organize fund raisers for them.
The HILLARity- jforjools, on 05/10/2008, -0/+1No, it can not. The money MUST be kept separately. See FEC law.
- jforjools, on 05/10/2008, -1/+2The article discusses the legalities a bit. And yes, it's a very tricky road to traverse, but it can be done.
- Pherdnut, on 05/10/2008, -0/+11I'd prefer she took a hit in the double digit millions for her foul campaign but it would be worth it to get her to GTFO. I don't think Obama can carry his primary funds over to the generals anyway, right?
- jforjools, on 05/10/2008, -1/+2No, I'm pretty sure he can carryover his primary funds into the general.
BUT, don't worry: he canNOT use his existing funds to cover HRC's debt.
He'd have to solicit those funds separately.- jforjools, on 05/10/2008, -0/+1Hey, man these are just pure facts.
If you're gonna dig down plain ol' facts, at least comment on why.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/09/obama-sug
... (or if you've rather navigate via digg:)http://digg.com/2008_us_elections/LEGALITIES_conce ... - Fordi, on 05/10/2008, -0/+2Don't worry about it man, I don't know why, but actual, real information gets often dugg down around here.
It's like the republican party is moving in on Digg.
- jforjools, on 05/10/2008, -0/+1Hey, man these are just pure facts.
- jforjools, on 05/10/2008, -1/+2No, I'm pretty sure he can carryover his primary funds into the general.
- Krisgi, on 05/10/2008, -0/+44***** Hillary and Penn. She took the risk, she lost... should have pulled out months ago and would have saved us a lot of time, money and damage.
YOU PLAY, YOU PAY.- alittleroy101, on 05/10/2008, -0/+2To be honest, someone should have pulled out ~61 years ago and this whole mess would have been avoided.
- MJDub, on 05/10/2008, -0/+2Zing!
- alittleroy101, on 05/10/2008, -0/+2To be honest, someone should have pulled out ~61 years ago and this whole mess would have been avoided.
- bigriley, on 05/10/2008, -0/+12He would be better off contributing to the super delegates (that support him) that are up for reelection. Clinton needs to write a new book about how she lost it all, I'm sure she'll make money off it ;)
- jforjools, on 05/10/2008, -1/+3yeah, no kidding. you just KNOW she's gonna get a book deal with more than the $11.4 million she's spent out-of-pocket.
- Mejari, on 05/10/2008, -0/+4"I didn't ruin the 2008 elections, but if I did, here's how I would have done it" Best Seller! Her and OJ can go on tour.
- queotic, on 05/11/2008, -0/+1Obama cannot use his donors' money to pay off Clinton's debt.
- jforjools, on 05/10/2008, -1/+3yeah, no kidding. you just KNOW she's gonna get a book deal with more than the $11.4 million she's spent out-of-pocket.
- veetwo26, on 05/10/2008, -0/+11Mark Penn should not receive one red cent from anyone but Bill and Hillary's *own* deep pockets. I'm not exactly crying in my milk over the idea of Poor Hillary having to suffer with loaning $11M she won't get back, plus another $10M they still owe (or whatever the math really is) when the two of them are rolling in dough from Bill's speaking engagements and Dubai investments. Boo hoo hoo. Maybe if she weren't so incredibly arrogant she wouldn't be in this pickle. And I too don't want to see a dime of the money I gave Obama go to That Woman, much less to Mark Penn.
- jforjools, on 05/10/2008, -1/+3Dugg for calling her 'That Woman'.
Hey, George Stphnpls was yacking about how his sources indicate that her debt may be OVER 30 MILLION (if you count the $11.4 she 'owes' herself.)
Between the speaking engagements and book deals, HRC will make up the 11.4mil all on her own--and won't even need to count on her husband's lobbbying and speaking incomes.
- jforjools, on 05/10/2008, -1/+3Dugg for calling her 'That Woman'.
- iainc, on 05/10/2008, -0/+11Those campaign contributions are probably better spent on the general election or being donated to truly worthwhile and charitable causes. If the Clintons can afford to loan that much cash for a lost cause, then more fool them; they new the risks and, quite frankly, they can afford to carry the cost.
- DietMountainDew, on 05/10/2008, -1/+7Sorry, but I didn't donate my money to the Obama camp to help with another person's debt. Maybe if she stopped well before this point like she should have done she wouldn't be in so much debt. (Which, when compared to how much the Clintons take in after he left office 11 million isn't much to them.)
Please either donate the money or use to to compete with McCain.- Barackalypse, on 05/10/2008, -9/+0Yeah, and I didn't give my tax money to the government to pay to feed and educate other people's kids or give retirement money to people I don't know, but that didn't stop the government from doing it anyway. You're a fool for willingly giving money to a liberal and not expecting they'd do something stupid with it that you wouldn't like. Hell, you gotta hand it to Obama, you would have never expected he'd do completely the opposite of what you wanted with the money you gave him, did you?
- LemurDaddy, on 05/10/2008, -0/+3Remember, kids, don't feed the troll.
- Barackalypse, on 05/10/2008, -5/+0Trolls > Obama story spammers. Clearly a large number of you are deluded and need to be snapped out of your little cult before you actually elect the man and he does some real damage.
- Fordi, on 05/10/2008, -0/+3Baka.
- Barackalypse, on 05/10/2008, -5/+0Trolls > Obama story spammers. Clearly a large number of you are deluded and need to be snapped out of your little cult before you actually elect the man and he does some real damage.
- LemurDaddy, on 05/10/2008, -0/+3Remember, kids, don't feed the troll.
- Barackalypse, on 05/10/2008, -9/+0Yeah, and I didn't give my tax money to the government to pay to feed and educate other people's kids or give retirement money to people I don't know, but that didn't stop the government from doing it anyway. You're a fool for willingly giving money to a liberal and not expecting they'd do something stupid with it that you wouldn't like. Hell, you gotta hand it to Obama, you would have never expected he'd do completely the opposite of what you wanted with the money you gave him, did you?
- wishninja, on 05/10/2008, -0/+12she is rich as ***** let her pay for it herself.
- ZenMojo, on 05/10/2008, -0/+3What, 134 million (latest estimate of her ACTUAL worth) minus 11.4 million = shut the hell up, you trifling assholes and pay your own bills.
- vroom101, on 05/10/2008, -0/+9There must be NO MONEY -- ZERO, NADA, ZIP, ZILCH, 0 -- money exchanged in either direction!
- LKnight, on 05/10/2008, -0/+12According to an associate of mine who decided to call the FEC for the straight scoop, here are the relevant facts: I just called the FEC to get some clarification. (Nothing like going to the source.)
Obama can only donate $2300 to Hillary's campaign.
He can donate money to the DNC, and they can donate money, that is limited to $5000.
The DNC can pay for a variety of things, such as commercials, out of hand expenses, but that is limited to the general election.
If Obama wants to help Hillary with her debts, he has to do it with a separate funding program. - CannedMango, on 05/10/2008, -1/+5This will be a good test for Obama on how he interprets the use of taxpayer money. If he refuses to pay off Clinton's debt with money given by supporters, then it's a good indication that he wouldn't use taxpayer money to bail out corporations.
- jforjools, on 05/10/2008, -1/+1Well, he certainly won't use any of he $ already given to him. But I can see him possbily arranging and sponsoring a separate fund--if it really does assure party unity. (Still--yuk.)
- Mejari, on 05/10/2008, -0/+2Of course he'd have to actually get people to donate to that fund.
- vexingmodstwo, on 05/10/2008, -2/+4I am constantly amazed at how ignorant people are about how the government works. There's no correlation between what Obama does with his campaign funds and how he might act as President. Primarily because there's this other group called CONGRESS that has a lot to say about it. Will you people PLEASE understand how things work before you say stupid ***** like this? PLEASE?
- paigeinphilly, on 05/10/2008, -0/+0Well..he already stated that he wants to "change" up the game on how the general election public funds be utilized..Obama doesnt want to take the taxpayers money for the GE and would rather ride off his base (which he really could) but McSame is bitchin.."well i aint got that much...shoot! no fair!"
Obama.Webb 08
- jforjools, on 05/10/2008, -1/+1Well, he certainly won't use any of he $ already given to him. But I can see him possbily arranging and sponsoring a separate fund--if it really does assure party unity. (Still--yuk.)
- larsone86, on 05/10/2008, -1/+3People with $109 spend $11 of it in lottery tickets and lose all the time. But, hey, they've still got $98 of it left, so they just buy a six pack of beer and a couple slim jims while they're at it. Not a bad deal at all!
- hittnrun, on 05/10/2008, -8/+3nice...elitist obamabot.
- Aensland, on 05/10/2008, -0/+3What part of it was elitist? Oh right, you're the ***** who keeps spewing and ranting about "Obamabots".
- DeskFlyer, on 05/10/2008, -2/+3SNAP IT TO A SLIM JIM!!!! OOOOH YEAH!
- DeskFlyer, on 05/10/2008, -0/+1No Macho Man Randy Savage fans I guess.
- hittnrun, on 05/10/2008, -8/+3nice...elitist obamabot.
- cjnkns, on 05/10/2008, -1/+4I"d make that elitist bitch wash my dishes to pay back all that money.
- dizilbdog, on 05/10/2008, -3/+9If the shoe was on the other foot would she help Obama. Hell No
- Cattywampus, on 05/10/2008, -7/+3Yes, she would, if Obama lost and had big debts. If a candidate doesn't do that, they risk alienating the losing candidate's voters, which mean their votes. Not to mention if would create a lot of bad feelings toward the candidate that might come back to bite them further down the road.
It's in the winner's interest to help out the loser and keep the loser's supporters in the fold.- dizilbdog, on 05/10/2008, -4/+3She wouldn't pay him no way. The Bilderberg group will fit the bill for her no worries
- Cattywampus, on 05/10/2008, -1/+1I didn't say she would pay him. Like I said in a comment below, the usual protocol is for the winner and runner-up to throw a "unity dinner" or "victory dinner" at which people pay a lot of money to attend, and both candidates appear and speak at the event. Some of the money goes to pay off the debts of the loser, some goes to the winning candidate, and some goes to the winner's general election fund. The idea is to lessen the loser's debt and keep supporters of both candidates motivated to vote for the winner in the general election.
This kind of thing is pretty standard in presidential elections (and sometimes in Senate elections, too).- jforjools, on 05/10/2008, -0/+1Yeah, but the size of her debit is Record-Breaker!
...a little help? sure.
Skip paying Hillary and Penn.
Pay off the remaining individual debts (expected to be $5-12 MIL).
...That's good with me--and it STILL exceeds the normal debt-load for a campaign at the end of its road.
- jforjools, on 05/10/2008, -0/+1Yeah, but the size of her debit is Record-Breaker!
- Cattywampus, on 05/10/2008, -1/+1I didn't say she would pay him. Like I said in a comment below, the usual protocol is for the winner and runner-up to throw a "unity dinner" or "victory dinner" at which people pay a lot of money to attend, and both candidates appear and speak at the event. Some of the money goes to pay off the debts of the loser, some goes to the winning candidate, and some goes to the winner's general election fund. The idea is to lessen the loser's debt and keep supporters of both candidates motivated to vote for the winner in the general election.
- jforjools, on 05/10/2008, -4/+1If he had $30 million in debt (according to George Stephnpls)?
I don't think she'd help THAT much.- dizilbdog, on 05/10/2008, -1/+2It's actually sort of sad you look to George Stephnopolis for anything.
- jforjools, on 05/10/2008, -0/+1Hey, the only reason he was referenced is because the ONE thing he does seem to have some knowledge about is the inside-workings of Hillary's campaign. (I certainly don't watch his show or even go to ABC's website these days. It was cross-reported by Politco or Huff.)
...And OTHER sources are now reporting the SAME (or very similar) numbers...Record-Breaking #s !!!
**** Hillary has $25-30 MIL in DEBT ! Holy crap. ****
- jforjools, on 05/10/2008, -0/+1Hey, the only reason he was referenced is because the ONE thing he does seem to have some knowledge about is the inside-workings of Hillary's campaign. (I certainly don't watch his show or even go to ABC's website these days. It was cross-reported by Politco or Huff.)
- dizilbdog, on 05/10/2008, -1/+2It's actually sort of sad you look to George Stephnopolis for anything.
- kashk5, on 05/10/2008, -2/+7The flaw in your logic is that you're talking about normal candidates. This is Hillary Clinton we're talking about, who would simply give Obama the finger
- dizilbdog, on 05/10/2008, -2/+3Exactly that is my point. I should have said that from the beginning
- Cattywampus, on 05/10/2008, -4/+1The problem Obama fans make is that they seem to assume Hillary Clinton is the devil incarnate. If you look at the history of presidential elections you'll find plenty of hard-fought campaigns in which bitter rivals eventually came together at the end.
But if you'd rather believe the absolute worst things about Clinton, you're certainly free to do so. The things you're saying have been said about other presidential candidates before by fans of the opposing candidates.
I'm just saying that history proves otherwise.
- dizilbdog, on 05/10/2008, -4/+3She wouldn't pay him no way. The Bilderberg group will fit the bill for her no worries
- Cattywampus, on 05/10/2008, -7/+3Yes, she would, if Obama lost and had big debts. If a candidate doesn't do that, they risk alienating the losing candidate's voters, which mean their votes. Not to mention if would create a lot of bad feelings toward the candidate that might come back to bite them further down the road.
- kratsnitram, on 05/10/2008, -3/+7I am immediately suspending any additional donations to the Obama campaign until this sorts out. If I wanted to donate to Hillary, I would've given the traitor my money directly.
- jforjools, on 05/10/2008, -0/+2Check out the article text. It's against Fed Election laws for Obama to use his campaign funds (ie your donations to him) to pay off Hillary's debt. YOUR (our) money is SAFE.
- queotic, on 05/11/2008, -0/+1Kratsnitram, I understand your concern, but Obama *cannot* use our donations to pay off HRC's debt. Please continue donating to our candidate.
- taradisiac, on 05/10/2008, -5/+1It's like a consolation price. That's why Billy Richardson endorsed Obama.
- Cattywampus, on 05/10/2008, -1/+7It shouldn't be that big a deal, it happens all the time in presidential campaigns. The winner hosts a "unity dinner" (or something similarly named) with expensive tickets. Both the winner and the runner-up appear at the dinner and speak. Some of the money goes to pay off the loser's debt, some goes to the winner's campaign.
It's not like Obama is going to take money out of his own campaign coffers to give money to Clinton, as some folks seem to think.- elipabst, on 05/10/2008, -0/+2Yeah, but you don't usually see a real hatchet job like Hillary pulled. She made her bed, let her sleep in it.
- T8erT0T, on 05/10/2008, -2/+9Lol, Hillary Clinton trying to preach to the American people she can control spending and turn the economy around. Meanwhile, she can't even micro-manage a freaking campaign fund without it redlining. Great Success.
- Barackalypse, on 05/10/2008, -5/+0And what does it say about Obama when his people want to bail her out using other people's money?
- ScaredOfTheMan, on 05/10/2008, -2/+2No No No....and oh yeah... No!
Do not give her a red cent, Obama claims to be a new kind of candidate that doesn't play "washington games", He should not make it look like you bought the nomination, he should just continue doing what he has done and win delegate in the coming primaries.
The Obama campaign would make a huge mistake paying her debt.- jforjools, on 05/10/2008, -0/+4Well, I have a big problem with a single cent going to Clinton or Penn.
But I'd be ok if Obama helped pay UCLA for facility use, bills from small businesses, etc.
But the GREAT news is this: NONE of these Clinton bills can be paid out of Obama's already established coffers. These debts would legally require **separate** solicitation/fundraising.
(Sigh of relief.)
- jforjools, on 05/10/2008, -0/+4Well, I have a big problem with a single cent going to Clinton or Penn.
- odinfire, on 05/10/2008, -8/+4So much for bringing the country together. Such unity from the Obama campaign.
- thestaton, on 05/10/2008, -1/+6I didn't donate my hard earned money to Billary. I donated it to Obama, if he has a surplus save it and bury McCain.
- queotic, on 05/11/2008, -0/+1Obama cannot use your money to pay off Clinton's debt as it is against FEC rules.
- PeppermintPig, on 05/10/2008, -2/+3Sad, isn't it? She was hedging on the hopes that she would be able to pay herself back through the power of the Presidency. Called this one.
Two good things come out of this:
1. It's just her debt, so she's the one who has to take account and.. .2. she won't get an opportunity to drive the economy into the ground with national tax money.
Unfortunately we have two more fiscally irresponsible lunatics still in the race.- Barackalypse, on 05/10/2008, -2/+2She and Bill earned over $100 million last year, I don't think 10 or 15 million in campaign obligations are gonna bankrupt them.
- jhails, on 05/10/2008, -1/+5Hit the "Time to pimp out Chelsea" theme music.
- jhails, on 05/10/2008, -1/+3Looks like it might be time to pimp out Chelsea again and maybe Bill as well?
- cast55, on 05/10/2008, -1/+2Am I to understand from this article that senator Hillary Clinton, candidate for the highest office in the United States of America, and potentially the last word on decisions concerning national economic policies, somehow managed to spend over eleven million dollars more than she had?
- jforjools, on 05/10/2008, -0/+4Actually her campaign is about $30 million in debt!
($11 million of it is 'debt' to Hillary, from her & Bill's personal funds.)
- jforjools, on 05/10/2008, -0/+4Actually her campaign is about $30 million in debt!
- jboettcher, on 05/10/2008, -1/+12LOL- she's loaned 11.43 MILLION dollars... that's $11,430,000 - lots of zeroes - to her own self - and here's the kicker:
She's a champion of the ordinary working class American!!!! LMAO.
Your ordinary working class american who makes $50,000 a year will, over the course of 40 working years bring in a grand total of 2 million dollars. Yet, Billary can loan herself 11.43 mils because it is a paltry amount to her!! LOL.- Mejari, on 05/10/2008, -0/+4But.. she's working class! I mean, you have to be working class to give speeches from the back of a truck right? The Hillary tells us! The Hillary tells us!
- Barackalypse, on 05/10/2008, -7/+1If he's willing to waste other people's money, given to him, on something as stupid as Clinton's campaign debt imagine what stupid ***** he'll do with a 3 trillion dollar government and the power to seize your money.
- vexingmodstwo, on 05/10/2008, -0/+4*sigh*... that's not really a very good analogy.
- Aensland, on 05/10/2008, -0/+4That's not even what's happening. RTFA you tool.
- Railz, on 05/10/2008, -0/+1While everything you just said wrong...No I got nothing else.
Presidents don't seize money, Congress does, they also allocate it.
Obama isn't giving her any his own contributed money, they'd have to do events for it; the article is sensationalist, he'd have to go with her to events, not just hand her free money.
- curtisag, on 05/10/2008, -0/+8Mark Penn is a ***** dumb-ass. He didn't even know that California's delegates are awarded proportionally. I knew that and I am a political novice. I could pull a better political strategist out of my ass.
- queotic, on 05/11/2008, -0/+1You know, I still have a hard time believing that. How could someone involved in politics NOT know it?
- Stevo23, on 05/10/2008, -0/+6Obama should offer to help pay off the vendors Clinton owes: the people who rented her equipment, space for rallies, office space, that sort of thing. Democrats will need those people again this fall, and they didn't do anything wrong. He should NOT help pay for her sleazy campaign staffers like Mark Penn, and her certainly shouldn't help pay back Clinton's $11.4 million loan to herself. Bill can just go hold a speaking tour to make that back or something.
- queotic, on 05/11/2008, -0/+2Agreed. The Americans who gave HRC's campaign credit shouldn't have to suffer because she was fiscally irresponsible. I would donate to a fundraiser which was geared towards paying those vendors, but I definately would NOT donate to anything which would put money into Clinton's or Penn's pockets.
- xen0blue, on 05/10/2008, -9/+2***** the democratic party
- jjgasp, on 05/10/2008, -0/+2Read the article. Money that the Obama campaign has raised can't be used to repay her loans. That would voilate federal election laws. All he can do is promise to help her to raise money to pay off the debts. So, essentially she is screwed (world's smallest violin between my thumb and forefinger playing sad music for her.)
- mozert, on 05/10/2008, -0/+6NO WAY, NO MONEY, NO VP, NOTHING, PERIOD.
- paigeinphilly, on 05/10/2008, -0/+1NO MONEY...yup.
NO VP....HECK NO!!
you gets nothing...do not pass go do not collect 200 dollas...nuthin.
eAT DirT & HIT the ROAD!
***My name is PaigeINPhilly and I approve this message**
Obama/Webb 08
- paigeinphilly, on 05/10/2008, -0/+1NO MONEY...yup.
- shiftclick, on 05/10/2008, -7/+1"OBAMASPAMMERS UNITE! FORM OF, RETARD...and some ice related object"...ahh, nevermind. Don't believe the HOPE!
- Aensland, on 05/10/2008, -0/+3Another stupid random non sequitur from the wingnut gallery.
- vision777, on 05/10/2008, -0/+4She and Bill have made over $100 million and are too cheap to pay off their own debt. Obama is poor compared to that type of money, everyone told her the math didn't work a long time ago but she still continues to fight on spending money her campaign doesn't have. How could we trust her with our nations economy?
- TheRealToma, on 05/10/2008, -1/+1Dont hate tha game, hate tha playa. ;)
- jforjools, on 05/10/2008, -0/+3"Under federal campaign finance law, the Obama campaign cannot directly pay off Clinton's debts, or the $11.43 million she has loaned the campaign, because that would violate campaign contribution limits. But if Obama is the nominee, he and his donor base could provide invaluable help to her in raising money through signed appeals, joint fundraisers and by other methods."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/09/obama-sug ... - eccitante, on 05/10/2008, -3/+2Every time I start liking this guy he says something stupid. All three of the candidates suck. I hope Hillary lends her campaign so much money she goes bankrupt. Then her character will match her financial situation.
- Railz, on 05/10/2008, -0/+4"help to her in raising money through signed appeals, joint fundraisers and by other methods."
Whats so stupid about it. He isn't giving her free money.
- Railz, on 05/10/2008, -0/+4"help to her in raising money through signed appeals, joint fundraisers and by other methods."
- kpkpkp, on 05/10/2008, -0/+2I am against giving any money directly to her campaign. That said, I have heard of local vendors (of office space) and similar that have done business with the Clinton campaign and gone unpaid. If the Obama campaign wants to clear up THOSE invoices, I think that would be a noble thing. But giving money to the Clinton campaign - NO ***** WAY!
- louiebaur, on 05/10/2008, -0/+1No loan or payback of anykind
- pedo, on 05/10/2008, -1/+1if obama pays off hillary's debt with money his supporters donated, a lot of his supporters will feel betrayed and ***** off. it would be incredibly stupid. he's already won. theres no point. if the bitch wants to stay in, let her. she is irrelevant now.
- plumcarrot, on 05/10/2008, -4/+1pedo you are a bitch.
- jforjools, on 05/10/2008, -0/+3From the article:
"Under federal campaign finance law, the Obama campaign cannot directly pay off Clinton's debts, or the $11.43 million she has loaned the campaign, because that would violate campaign contribution limits. But if Obama is the nominee, he and his donor base could provide invaluable help to her in raising money through signed appeals, joint fundraisers and by other methods."
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