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Exclusive: Obama – ‘Spread the Wealth Around’ Reveals Social

familysecuritymatters.org — At a recent campaign appearance in Ohio, Sen. Obama was approached by plumber Joe Wurzelbacher, who has concerns about Obama's proposed tax policies. FamilySecurityMatters.org's Pam Meister had a candid conversation with him about his experience.

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  • ericcarroll, on 10/15/2008, -12/+38From the Interview:

    "He doesn’t want to “punish” me, but – when you use the word “but,” you pretty much negate everything you just said prior to that. So he does want to punish me, he does want to punish me for working harder to – you know, my big thing is the American Dream. I work hard. You know, I was poor; my mom raised me and my brother by herself for a very long time until my dad came along. So I know what it’s like to suffer. It’s not like I was born with a silver spoon. Usually it was a wooden spoon and it was on my butt. It was just a contradiction of terms, what he said: he doesn’t want to punish me but he wants to redistribute my wealth. And what I mean when I say my wealth, I mean the collective. Eventually – I mean, just to sound a little silly here, but you need rich people. I mean, who are you going to work for?"
    • IRPro, on 10/16/2008, -2/+5Gees, you sound like my wife with that "but!" part. She always gets me when I say that lol.
    • EndOfTimes, on 10/16/2008, -6/+4Strip Warren Buffet, Bill Gates of all their assets and distribute to all the poor people in America... That's the Obama socialist way is what I'm beginning to get the idea these days... is that correct?
      This Joe the Plumber said he wants to purchase a business that could make over $250k, closer to around $280k... he is worried with Obama's tax increases he may not be able to hire the extra worker, or the new car etc.
      Good point!

      But, there's something that's nagging away at me, that I hope someone can explain.. you see, I did some math, and based on that $30k ($280k-$250k) where his tax goes up by 3% (from 36% to 39%), my calculator says that "Joe the Plumber" will pay a whopping $900 tax a year extra.... Now, noone wants to pay extra tax, but is this extra $900 from a $280,000 income (and I haven't even factored in the tax credits he will receive ??) really going to make the difference, when you also consider the potential extra customers that can now afford his services resulting in even greater profits.... something sounds odd to me, can someone explain whats wrong here and what is so bad with this scenario?
      • Spuy767, on 10/16/2008, -2/+6Your math is wrong because he's not making $30,000.00, he's making ten times that, so he'll be paying $9000.00 in taxes extra, approximately.
      • shauncorleone, on 10/16/2008, -2/+3$8400 to be exact. That's an employee's healthcare.
      • EndOfTimes, on 10/16/2008, -3/+1he's not paying an extra 3% on all $280,000. Up to $250,000 his tax does not change (36%). The only change is on the extra $30k, which then becomes 39%. So that is only $900. Not an employees healthcare at all, and certainly not a cause for concern for a business man making $280k.
      • ThinkOutTheBox, on 10/16/2008, -0/+2@EndofTimes

        Your way wrong. If he grosses 280K then he gets taxed 39% on that 280K not just the 30K over the 250K that is not how taxes work. Then you also have to add in the fact he will have to pay for his employee's health care and have to pay the increase on the payroll tax so in actuality he will be paying somewhere around 56% and the thing about it is the fact that no business is going to be immune to Obama's payroll tax increase.
  • TeachX3, on 10/15/2008, -13/+37
    If the 'wealth is spread around' nobody, NOBODY will strive and work hard to be bigger and better... the 'American Dream' will have died.

    • CaptCarrot, on 10/15/2008, -2/+18Behold, the death knell of Incentive.
      • EndOfTimes, on 10/16/2008, -9/+2If taxing Joe the Plumber an extra $900 per year (for a $280k income) spell the death knell of incentive then it doesn't take much to crush that spirit does it...?
        Especially when you consider the extra customers that Joe the Plumber will get with more people being able to afford the services as a result of their tax cut...
        Actually it sounds more like it will actually improve Joe's business and drive the economy in the right direction... and we haven't factored in the tax credits here either!
      • Spuy767, on 10/16/2008, -3/+93% of 300 grand is 9 thousand not 9 hundred you ***** imbecile!
      • CaptCarrot, on 10/16/2008, -3/+5@Spuy767: Dug for obtaining math skills despite the US education system.
      • ldkronos, on 10/16/2008, -7/+2@Spuy767:
        Careful who you call an imbecile, because you you make yourself sound more the imbecile by that post. Do you even understand how the concept of marginal tax rates work? As Obama states in his discussion with Joe, the tax rate that is going to be increased is on the amount in excess of $250K. Your first $250K of income will have the same tax, but the amount over that is going to be taxed at a rate 3% higher. Joe said $270K-$280K, which means that tax increase will be 3% of $20K-$30K, which works out to $600-$900

        Who's the ***** imbecile now? You sound as stupid as all those people who think making more money puts you in a higher tax bracket causing you to have less money (not true), or those people who think it's wonderful to be paying interest on their mortgage because you get a tax deduction (I'll gladly pay you 25 cents for every dollar you give me, which is what your mortgage interest tax deduction essentially does).
      • EndOfTimes, on 10/16/2008, -4/+1@Idkronos: Thats exactly the point I was going to make.
        @Spuy767: You really need to look closer at the policies, clearly you don't understand them. Once you do you might find your voting for the wrong guy... $900 extra tax, and on the flip side, a lot more customers coming in because the working class have more funds.. this will strengthen the economy and Joe's business will boom under the Obama administration.
      • THEROD54, on 10/17/2008, -1/+2EndOfTimes ,Its obvious you are not self employed. Every damm tax increase is a decentive!
    • craigly, on 10/15/2008, -2/+18What I want to know is why isn't this obvious to everyone?
      • NoCommies, on 10/16/2008, -2/+11Because they have no desire to be sucessful. They want handouts from us.
    • moomza, on 10/15/2008, -8/+3The majority of people in this country want the government to do good rather than do harm. Naively perhaps, but that's what they want.

      But, there's what is really going on ....

      Eight years of “conservative” government has brought us a doubled national debt, ruinous expansion of entitlement programs, bridges to nowhere, disastrous disaster "aid", poster boy Jack Abramoff and an ill-premised, ill-waged war conducted by politicians of breathtaking arrogance. As a sideshow, it brought us a truly obscene attempt at federal intervention in the Terry Schiavo case, among many, many other disgusting sideshows. Oh, and a ***** upon of the Consitution unlike any administration in history.

      Bush ruined, literally ruined, your party. Your party was once my party. Everyone that voted twice for that imbecile and doesn't feel shame (I am embarrassed to tell you I voted for him in 2000) is being punished now, and rightly so.

      Now it's time that you also stepped away from your pure ideology, and even your feelings of identity, to punish your party. Ditch your wedge issues and put your world view in the fridge, just this one election, and make a powerful statement by voting Obama. Then announce this protest to all of your friends on Digg and in the real world. You will actually help the republicans by doing so, by accelerating the required dramatic reinvention of the right.

      I am glad I have influenced you to do the right thing. My job here is done.


      • SchizotiK, on 10/15/2008, -2/+3I didn't read your comment moomza, but you have a good vibe. I trust you. You exude conservative values, the love of George Bush, I can tell you're against killing unborn babies, against Marxism, against voter fraud and Barack 'ACORN' Obama. This is truly wonderful, and a blessing to my soul.
      • moomza, on 10/15/2008, -7/+3
        I am just trying to help you guys understand. Y'all just seem so confused as to how your party got into this position.

        And I know you read my comment, thanks for considering my proposal as to why you need to Vote Obama. I hope you will.

        Obama/Biden 08. A pleasure cruise to victory ...


      • SchizotiK, on 10/15/2008, -2/+3You say "Obama/Biden 08. A pleasure cruise to victory", but your aura says "I love neocons." Your aura is voting McCain (it can do that, ACORN lets you have a vote for yourself and for your aura. And your dog's aura, which is also voting McCain.)
      • WhatBubbaKnows, on 10/16/2008, -1/+7Oh, you have influenced me to do the right thing, moom. No doubt. Just not how you wish. If forced to choose between voting for Obama and shaving my head with a weed-eater, I'd be needing antiseptic and a case of bandaids.
        We know darn well how the Republican party got in the shape it's in, it's because we have let liberals calling themselves moderates take it over and turn it into Dhimmicrat Lite.
        Spare me your advice. I'll not need any from an Obammunist.

      • ThinkOutTheBox, on 10/16/2008, -1/+4Your voting for Obama for all the wrong reasons. If you hated the last eight years then you will absolutely despise an Obama presidency.

        Bush is a liberal even though his party is Republican he is a liberal there are no two ways around it. Obama is even further left than Bush.
      • Glynth, on 10/16/2008, -2/+5"Obama/Biden 08. A pleasure cruise to victory."

        Isn't that the problem? More promises from the far Left... everything's a "pleasure cruise," no real hard work for anyone... buying votes with hand-outs.

        "A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury...."
      • CaptCarrot, on 10/16/2008, -0/+7Actually, the majority of the people would prefer the government do nothing. So many things would be so much better if the government would just sit back and, oh, maybe get back to just doing the job of Senator and Congressman and Judge instead of Babysitter, Santa Claus, and other in loco parentis occupations.
  • ThinkOutTheBox, on 10/15/2008, -10/+36Just about all business owners are saying the same thing, Obama gets elected people are going to lose jobs.
  • tasine, on 10/15/2008, -10/+23If all the workers, small businesses, and wealthy individuals decided to quit providing for 100% of the population, what would happen to this plan to spread wealth more evenly? There would BE no wealth to spread. It very well could be "Atlas Shrugged" time where the workers disappear and leave all the work to the lackards, and you know where society goes from there.
    • larissa13, on 10/16/2008, -1/+7You are so totally correct. Whats the point of risk and opportunity under socialism?
  • wallja, on 10/15/2008, -19/+10ROFL: "Exclusive: Obama – ‘Spread the Wealth Around’ Reveals Socialist Plan for America" The writer of this piece does not have a faintest idea what is socialism, but a very robust hatred of Democrats.
    • craigly, on 10/15/2008, -2/+10It's quite obvious you didn't even read the article, but based your comment upon the title of the article alone. Amazing, since even the title doesn't imply hatred. OK, so let's look at the title: Exclusive: Obama – ‘Spread the Wealth Around’ Reveals Socialist Plan for America. If you're a Democrat (and I imagine that you are from your comments), what problem do you have with that title? Listed in that title alone is just about everything your candidate stands for! Why, then, would you have anything bad to say about your candidate?

      Personally, that title that sums up your candidates positions is the reason I will not vote for him. You, OTOH, consider Socialism a virtue. You can have it, sir, but please don't promote it in America.
      • NoCommies, on 10/16/2008, -1/+5At least he didn't accuse us of being racist, that is a first for an Obamatard.
    • SchizotiK, on 10/15/2008, -2/+4Wallja: "Me pretend know stuff, pretend me know what socialism is. Me get Obama cookie now?"
  • exgop, on 10/15/2008, -11/+27Why are American so economically stupid? Socialism has failed everywhere it has been tried. Just because we are about to elect the Messiah does not mean socialism will work. I am questioning whether it will be worth my while to bust my ass anymore if he gets elected. I should be like many of his supporters, sit on my ass amd wait for the government check.
    • badqat, on 10/15/2008, -2/+14Because many Americans believe in the myth of "free" money.
    • algaeturd, on 10/16/2008, -4/+5You might want to read up on the history of welfare in America. The VAST MAJORITY of it goes to 'RED' states. Your precious co-republicans are the ones suckling the teet of this government. It's not even CLOSE.
      So more lies, more hypocrisy, more illogical arguments by the uneducated right trying to use voodoo logic to slant things in their direction.
      Fail. Fail. Fail...
      • shauncorleone, on 10/16/2008, -1/+3so turd,
        Welfare Recipient always = Registered Voter

        Van Gogh couldn't draw that conclusion
      • aud24, on 10/16/2008, -1/+2I never get sick of picking on algaeturd... You are right about one thing turd... this whole country will be RED soon... thanks to you and the other arrogant brainwashed masses... The 'uneducated right' shtick is getting old... come up with some new material... ACORN already got all the uneducated bottom-feeders (Oooo which would include the algae family) to register to vote for Obama.
  • ozel01, on 10/15/2008, -13/+24The Brookings Institute conducted a study that says 4 out of 5 or 80% of businesses that make over $250K annually are small businesses. Take the Ohio Plumber in this example. He says he will have no choice but to shrink his business so that he doesn't make the $250,000. You do that by laying people off and scaling back ops. Like I said in another post. Obama institutes his tax plan and you will see the jobless rate expand like its on steroids. Apply that theme to the small businesses that make over $250,000 annually and just imagine how many jobs will go down the drain.
    • algaeturd, on 10/16/2008, -2/+5Go to college. Take a few semesters, study statistics, logic, history, economics and see how incredibly wrong you are and how incredibly dumb you sound.
      Thanks.
      • tasine, on 10/16/2008, -2/+1turd, go back to ACORN from which I assume you sprouted. This is a grown-ups discussion.
      • ozel01, on 10/16/2008, -0/+1I've probably got more degrees and certificates than you could ever think about getting. The biggest thing I have learned is normal higher education tries to force you to suspend all reason and believe in the narrow socio-communist ideology. Fortunately, I kept my sanity through all those years of brain washing. I don't do anything in the realm of the degrees I hold because I can't support the socio-communist ideology. The only way to become successful in those arrenas, in large part, is to accept and promote the ideology. The biggest problem I have is the ingrained ability to outright lie to and mislead people it takes to push that ideology goes against every single thing I stand for.
      • tasine, on 10/16/2008, -0/+2ozel01 is so right about higher institutions of learning. For at least 40 years now classrooms in many, many of the universities offer little but propaganda for the left. Been there. Know it for a fact. The only place I think a person can get some true learning is at the community college level. As far as I am concerned, a college degree is worthless. It does open doors to better jobs, but it doesn't prepare anyone to be able to do those jobs half-way adequately......that's one major problem today. It is no wonder so much gets screwed up in offices and places of business. I have a single degree, a bachelor's - just couldn't handle listening to more of that swill. I have never once regretted never going further in school. So, algaeturd, your constant harping "get an education", etc. falls on ears that understand where you are coming from.
      • ldkronos, on 10/16/2008, -0/+1ozel01:
        Sorry to tell you, but while you thought you were avoiding brainwashing, it sounds like all you were avoiding was the chance to educate yourself. Business do NOT make more by making less. It pretty much never happens. There may be some obscure loophole you can exploit somewhere in very specific circumstances to do so (though I don't know of a single one). However, unless you know a specific such loophole and are actively trying to exploit it, it's safe to say with absolute certainty that a business will NEVER make more by making less. If you think so, you obviously don't understand all the basics, like revenue vs profit, or marginal tax rates.
    • Spuy767, on 10/16/2008, -3/+2It's not about people scaling back their businesses to earn less thatn 250k, it's the fact that for every million earned in this country by a business, there is 30k down the *****, and that 30k is a job lost.
      • ozel01, on 10/16/2008, -0/+1Evidently you were still a glint in your father's eye when Carter ran the country. Anyone who remembers Carter knows exactly what I am talking about. Remember the double digit inflation and unemployment rates. Carter called it a "national malaise." He and a democratically controlled congress couldn't figure out how to fix it. They thought wealth redistribution was the answer so kept jacking up the taxes. The more taxes went up, the more the unemployment rate and inflation went up. After all, the businesses aren't going to absorb those tax hikes. The consumer is going to pay for those tax hikes.

        Go ahead and believe those businesses are going to absorb those tax hikes with no reprecussions for the consumer. When we hit the double digit inflation and unemployment, I'll come right back here and show you "I told you so."
    • ldkronos, on 10/16/2008, -0/+1Shrink your business so you can make more money? Anyone who thinks you can do that doesn't have a clue about how marginal taxation works. If you shrink your business so that you make less, I can guarantee you one thing: the reduction in your income will be several times the reduction in your taxes. If you want to earn $4K less so that you can pay $1K less in taxes, that's just stupidity.
      • ozel01, on 10/16/2008, -1/+1So, you would be motivated to grow your business to the point you pay 62% tax? Folks, I know of people working high dollar jobs in factories who turned down pay raises because they knew the raise would put them in a higher tax bracket. After they did the math, they understood that going into a higher tax bracket with a pay raise would leave them less to bring home than under the lower rate of pay. Likewise, I am a truck driver. I can legally drive 3200 miles per week in my "short-legged" truck. HOwever, I know if I end up driving more than about 2800 miles per week, I will end up in a higher tax bracket and bring home less money than I would if I stay under 2800 miles. I try to keep my miles in the neighborhood of 2500 - 2600 each week.

        Yes, paying higher taxes is indeed a vehicle that stunts growth. It does it at the individual level and it does it at the business level.
      • ldkronos, on 10/16/2008, -0/+1WRONG WRONG WRONG!. Again, I'll repeat myself. If you think you'll make more by making less, you don't have a clue about how marginal taxation works. It's amazing that so many people don't even understand the most important rule about how the government decides how much money to take from you.

        When you enter a new tax bracket, your entire income is NOT subjected to your new tax rate, only the additional income is. Here's an example:

        Lets say the tax rates are 25% up to 100K and 40% for over that (number made up for ease of computation). Lets say you make 100K. That means currently you pay 25K and bring home 75K. Now, lets say you had the opportunity to make 110K. The way you THINK it works would mean that you'd not pay 44K in taxes, meaning you'd bring home 66K, or 9K less than you brought home when you made 10K less.

        However that is NOT HOW IT WORKS. With marginal taxation, you pay 25% of the first $100K (25K), and 40% of the next 10K (4K). That means your taxes are 29K, leaving you with 81K take home. Your extra 10K income means that you take home 6K more than you did before. So now tell me, how is it that taking home 6K more makes you poorer?

        Now, in regard to your case, I don't understand where you are coming from with the mileage thing. I'm not familiar with how truckers are paid. Is your pay merely a certain number of cents per mile? If so, then again...you are absolutely, 100% wrong about making less money. How does it feel to know you've been intentionally reducing your potential earning for no legitimate reason?

        Now, where you MIGHT be getting tripped up is how much tax is withheld from you. It is typically impossible for a company to know how much tax your are going to owe (for a variety of reasons I wont' get into), so they don't know the correct amount to withhold on each paycheck. Instead, all they can do is estimate how much should be withheld based on your annual income and some basic assumptions about your financial status. When your income goes up they may incorrectly calculate how much additional needs to be withheld. In that case, your paycheck might end up smaller, but you aren't actually paying more taxes. You can get that money back 1 of 2 ways. Either fill out a new W-4 form with the figures necessary so that the correct amount is withheld, or simply wait until you file your income tax the next year, and you will get that back. Financially, withholding the correct amount is the better path, but some people like the feeling of getting back a larger tax refund.
  • IronDioPriest, on 10/15/2008, -7/+16John McCain needs to have Joe Wurzelbacher in the debate audience.
  • BulkHedd, on 10/15/2008, -8/+22"A Government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul."
    -George Bernard Shaw
  • Pitofdoom, on 10/15/2008, -10/+6The guys being pimped by hollywerd media, next....
  • moomza, on 10/15/2008, -14/+9wait - this is an interview of some plumber that spoke with Obama when he was meeting voters in person in Ohio? A brief and passing conversation regurgitated onto a blog through the 'Family Security Matters' filter?

    I know how badly you guys want meat, but holy heck this is silly.

    Anyways, McCain should be pressing the flesh old school like Obama. It might make the landslide less devastating for him.
    • SchizotiK, on 10/15/2008, -1/+5I hear the only flesh Obama's pressing belongs to Vera Baker.
      • moomza, on 10/15/2008, -5/+3I didn't know who Vera Baker was, so I looked her up.

        How did I not know about this?! Scandal !! Just more stuff the Liberal Media won't cover!! hehe.

        Obama/Biden 08. Submit to your fate.
      • SchizotiK, on 10/16/2008, -0/+6Lol you have to get your head out of Huffpo's butt dear girl, there's a big wide world out there. I like how you had a brief moment of clarity with the MSM thing (before you went back to insane). Beware, brief moments of clarity lead to prolonged moments of clarity! The neocons are coming to get you!
  • wishninja, on 10/15/2008, -6/+10He needs to take a business course. Dude you can deduct the loan payments from your profits among many other things. Also you can divide out profits your business makes and what you take for yourself.
    • desertdweller, on 10/16/2008, -1/+5Not all small businesses have loans. They kill cash flow and add risk.
      • ldkronos, on 10/16/2008, -1/+2Read the article. The guy says flat out:
        "it’s not something I’m gonna purchase outright, it’s something I’m going to have to make payments on for years"
    • ThinkOutTheBox, on 10/16/2008, -0/+2But your still going to get taxed on gross profits so you will still be paying whatever the tax rate is before you start deducting. That is what I'm guessing since Obama hasn't came and said what exactly he will be taxing on businesses gross, recipts, etc....
  • exgop, on 10/16/2008, -5/+2this
  • NoCommies, on 10/16/2008, -12/+11John McCain needs to grow a set of onions or use Palin's. Let her loose to attack. Bring up obamas church, dont back down from ayers and for gods sake point out that MCcain was serving his country, Obama was snorting coke.
    • desertdweller, on 10/16/2008, -4/+6... and Obama wouldn't pass a basic security background check as a result of the cocaine use.

      Real smart handing this dunce the football, eh?
    • algaeturd, on 10/16/2008, -3/+4McCain is an erratic, hypocritical liar. I'd rather have someone whose done coke than someone who gets confused whenever clouds float by. Try again.
      • tasine, on 10/16/2008, -1/+3turd, your mama's calling you. Best you go home.
  • camdotcom, on 10/16/2008, -1/+3Top 10 Citizens Who Didn't Make the "Joe the Plumber" Cut
    Like:
    Carol the Pedicurist
    or
    Pete the Neighborhood Perv
    http://nosesplash.com/blog-news/173-top-10-citizen ...
  • jimchap, on 10/16/2008, -5/+10As a small business owner for 30+ years, I can tell you that Obama's plan benefits me.
    I may as well be Joe the Plumber or whoever the canned ***** McCain was peddling was.
    In a small business, EVERYTHING is deductible. Every employee, every item down to a pencil is deductible. McCain doesn't know this because he's never been in business and is too incurious to investigate it. It's your personal NET that gets taxed. Not your gross as McCain would have his suckers believe. Obama put the final coat of paint on ole Grumpy Dumb Granpa.
    Sorry Gramps, hand over those keys.
    • legolas68, on 10/16/2008, -2/+2When a small business owner has a net he/she tends to put it back into the business. What is the carrot on the stick if your net gets handed over to 0bama to be spread around as he sees fit? May as well break even every year to deny the tax man. What kind of growth is that? Zero.
      • ldkronos, on 10/16/2008, -1/+2First, in order to say zero growth, you'd have to assume 100% tax. Show me where Obama proposes that.

        More importantly is that you seem not to understand how business finances work. How do you invest money back into a business? Simple: you have the business take the money and SPEND it on something that helps grow the business. When you spend, that is an EXPENSE, and net profit is defined as gross profit minus expenses. Therefore, the money reinvested into the business doesn't get taxed.

        I must say that it seems at least 90% of the people I see criticizing Obamas plans display a critical lack of understanding of how tax and finance works, and thus their critique is inherently flawed.
    • ldkronos, on 10/16/2008, -1/+1Yes, and if you read this interview, Joe the plumber prove flat out that he doesn't understand this concept (so either he's gonna need to learn really fast, or he's gonna be a terrible businessman). He says he may not be able to hire a few additional plumbers because of the higher taxes, but as you say, the pay for those employees will be deducted from the profits. The only way it won't be profitable to hire employees is if those employees work contribute less revenue to the business than their salary costs, in which case it makes no sense to hire the employee no matter what the tax rate is.
      • legolas68, on 10/16/2008, -2/+1What happens when Joe wants to benefit from his business with a decent salary?
      • ldkronos, on 10/16/2008, -0/+2First, I think most people would take issue with your suggestion that $250K isn't a decent salary. Still, if he wants more than $250K, then he gets that with a slightly higher tax on that extra money. There's nothing stopping him from getting more. I swear...you act like Obama has proposed a $250K salary cap on everyone.
    • paintgrl, on 10/16/2008, -0/+2I to own my own small business and after using the tax calculator I get a way bigger tax cut with Obama. I do not make over $250,000 a year after deductions, but I did the calculation as if I did and I still paid less with Obama's tax plan. When it went to $280,000 a year I would pay $12 a year more then I would under the current Bush tax cuts.
      I can live with that.
    • ThinkOutTheBox, on 10/16/2008, -0/+1But what are you going to pay taxes on, he doesn't say if it is going to be net or gross. In fact I was just at his website and he doesn't say anything about what taxes will be raised and what will get taxed net or gross. SO how do you know you will do better under an Obama presidency.
      • ldkronos, on 10/16/2008, -0/+1He's only proposing a 3 percent change in the tax bracket, not a complete rewrite of the tax rules. The current tax rules are based on net, not gross.
  • ldkronos, on 10/16/2008, -2/+7Reading this article, I couldn't help but notice the hypocrisy in Joe's comments:

    "No. See, I believe in working for what I get. I don’t want to say it’s a handout, but essentially that’s what it comes down to. You’re going to tax someone else more that’s been working hard to fulfill the American Dream and you’re gonna give it to other people who – I’m not saying they don’t work as hard, but I’m sure some of them don’t – and I don’t think it’s right just to give it to them or reduce taxes on their part and hike it up on my part like a teeter totter to bring it back even. So no, that wouldn’t – well, let me rephrase that. It would appeal to me because back then I was struggling. That kind of thing appeals to me – anybody wants to cut my taxes, I look at it very seriously, it’s like, it sounds great. But you gotta see what the other hand is doing too."

    So in essence, the guy is saying: Back when I was struggling, I'd be more than happy to let the government help the struggling people, but now that my situation has improved and I'm no longer struggling...to hell with those struggling bloodsucking leeches. Classic case of forgetting where you come from.
    • DirtyVicar, on 10/16/2008, -1/+3Might as well call him Joe the $250K Business Owner, not Joe the Struggling Tradesman. That amount of cash is getting up near CEO pay there. What I hear is just typical selfishness and whining about taxes.
  • solboldi, on 10/16/2008, -0/+2"McCain doesn't know this because he's never been in business and is too incurious to investigate it. "

    This is completely false. Out of the military McCain's first job was working for a beer distributor, and he did well. So did the company. Also McCain has made a lot of money from his books which he donates to charity.

    Why lie though?
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