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Christian Leaders Speak Out for Obama
jamesdobsondoesntspeakform… — Dr. James Dobson recently attacked Barack Obama for a 2006 speech that Obama gave on his Christian faith. Does he speak for you? A coalition of pastors and other Christians, lead by Pastor Kirbyjon Caldwell are standing up for our Christian faith and supporting Barack Obama.
kaynee- 1212 diggs
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- cmonroe, on 06/25/2008, -21/+57Thank you, Pastor Caldwell, for standing up for our Christian faith
- hmunkey, on 06/26/2008, -6/+13What I don't understand is why religion matters so much in our elections. Separation of the church and the state is a principle on which the US was founded. If a Muslim would act differently from a Christian or a Jew in office, that is a problem, not what religion they follow themselves.
- prisoner24601, on 06/26/2008, -12/+7A 2007 Barna group study found:
83% of Americans call themselves "Christian" when asked.
83 out of 100 random Americans in a room will term themselves Christian.
42% of Americans are categorized Christians who are also "Born Again."
(Will state "when I die, I will go to Heaven because I have confessed my sins and have accepted Jesus Christ as my savior.")
42 of the original 100 believe they will go to heaven because they trust in Jesus for their salvation.
However, a full 37% of the "born agains" will say (astonishingly) they believe that if a person is "GOOD ENOUGH" they can EARN a place in Heaven. In other words, they think believing in Jesus is a good "option" for getting right with God, but there are other equally good methods out there. That's 15 out of the 42, leaving 27.
That means that only 27 out of 100 people in America really understand that Jesus HAD to die on the cross for my sins, and that we therefore MUST believe in Him for our salvation. Conversely, 56 in 100 Americans are running around saying they are Christians, but they do NOT believe Jesus when He said "I am THE way, THE truth, and THE life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."
I actually feel bad for the Atheists and non-Christians out there who are so frustrated with the mixed-message "theological soup" and hypocrisy that CALLS itself Christianity today. But they should bear in mind that for every ONE Christian who is out there walking around and really understands what Jesus did for us on the cross and really understands what the Bible teaches Christianity is, there are TWO people walking around calling themselves Christians who are, at best, profoundly theologically under-educated.- vinod1978, on 06/26/2008, -1/+4@prisoner24601 - Though I appreciate you statistical information I would rather see this comment if we were discussing theology instead of deciding who should be our next president.
- prisoner24601, on 06/26/2008, -6/+5While I understand your position that theology and politics should be isolated from each other, even if I shared that view, which I obviously don't, I think you would have to admit that Obama has opened this can of worms, not Dobson.
I simply mean that the moment Obama decided to try to "appeal to the Evangelicals" he made these issues quite valid. Dobson has reasons to be concerned that Obama is applying a thin layer of vague spirituality and is out of his depth.
Obama entered the arena, Dobson didn't drag him in. Obama started a discussion about spirituality, and I (as one of the 27% of "Evangelical Christians") find that he is (so far) out of his element. His positions on so many issues are at odds with a Biblical worldview, yet he has *intentionally* come knocking for my vote with the "my spirituality is essentially the same as yours" statement. If he had stuck to "I'm better at managing X than McCain" then I'd have had no reason to post at all.
But he didn't. And now he's started a conversation that 27% of us are really wondering how he can possibly finish with anything other than "Nevermind. I guess I don't want to talk about this at all." - vinod1978, on 06/26/2008, -0/+2@prisoner24601 - Obama really didn't want to discuss this at all, but he had to because of neo-cons, and far right wingers that were smearing rumors that he was a Muslim, or that he attending a Muslim school, etc...
It is well known (in many interviews before the republican & Clinton smear campaigns against Obama started) that Obama didn't want to talk an incredible amount about religion because he felt it was a personal issue, but he did so to be on the offensive because so many people have not told the truth about this past.
Secondly - I believe Obama's speech had a lot of common sense. The best way to interpret scripture in politics is not to introduce them if the general public does not agree with the same view, after all the government is supposed create laws for US, not for THEM.
- prisoner24601, on 06/26/2008, -6/+5While I understand your position that theology and politics should be isolated from each other, even if I shared that view, which I obviously don't, I think you would have to admit that Obama has opened this can of worms, not Dobson.
- Jlaugh, on 06/26/2008, -0/+2Well all those different christian denominations have different theological viewpoints. I don't see why they should have to agree with each others theology in a secular nation that embraces religious freedom.
Faith and works is as good a interpretation of an allegory as any. What disturbs me more is that people claim a literal interpretation at all.
- vinod1978, on 06/26/2008, -1/+4@prisoner24601 - Though I appreciate you statistical information I would rather see this comment if we were discussing theology instead of deciding who should be our next president.
- Botanicus, on 06/26/2008, -9/+5Dobson speaks for me on this issue. Obama clearly misunderstood the passages he spoke about and his patronizing 'they should go back and read their Bibles' is quite hypocritical.
I'm glad Dobson had the courage to speak up against Obama on this issue (and draw out the intolerance here)- Spuy767, on 06/26/2008, -0/+1I don't give a damn either way, I just think it's funny to see diggers take a ride on the coattails of anyone who says anything positive about their messiah. It is, however, inspiring to see diggers working together with their natural enemies, the Christians.
- humptydumtonme, on 06/26/2008, -3/+4How is he standing up for Christian faith by supporting Obama? That is a ridiculous claim. Would someone be standing up for Christian faith by voting for McCain? Does Christianity have anything to do with endorsing candidates?
- Blankcheque, on 06/26/2008, -2/+3Because Dobson believes in advancing his power.
Not living Christ-like.
When that's all Jesus ever said he wanted us to do.
And waging a pre-emptive war murdering thousands upon thousands, if not approaching millions of Iraqi civillians, is not Christ-like.
That's the difference.- humptydumtonme, on 06/26/2008, -0/+1I'm not justifying McCain or the war. They could speak out against the war, but endorsing one candidate is standing up and being Christ-like? I'm not defending Dobson, but I think it is hypocritical to bash him and then praise others pastors that believe in your favor.
- Blankcheque, on 06/26/2008, -1/+1Because their belief is that of being more inline with Christ. By supporting Obama, they feel that his policies are closer to Christ then what Dobson's done, and demonizing Obama, is throwing his weight around in a non-Christian way.
By standing up AGAINST that demonizing they are making a statement that Obama's belief's are just as Christian as theirs. You could even make the argument that their Christian views are closer in line with Christianity. - humptydumtonme, on 06/27/2008, -0/+0So Dobson is acting non-Christian when he talks against Obama? What is Obama the Messiah? How can you call Obama's stance on abortion a "Christian view?" I don't agree with Dobson on a lot, but I think his view of Christianity is a lot more accurate than Jeremiah Wright's.
- Blankcheque, on 06/26/2008, -2/+3Because Dobson believes in advancing his power.
- arcooke, on 06/26/2008, -4/+5Faith is for those who are unwilling to accept reality.
Those are not the people I want as president.- Spuy767, on 06/26/2008, -2/+2Originally, religion was about control. Those in power recognized that being able to explain the inexplicable through myths and legends while also gaining a means with which to threaten their subjects into submission without actually threatening them would give them power immeasurable. In the last couple hundred years, religion has become a means for those uncomfortable, or incapable of coming to terms with their own mortality a means of denying it. This is why they defend their god whoever he/she may be, so vehemently, because to tel a believer that his or her god doesn't exist is to tell them that their life means nothing in the end. That sense of inescapable meaninglessness is very powerful.
- Andrwmorph, on 06/26/2008, -0/+1I agree. While religion offers hope in exchange for blind obedience, I prefer reality.
- NobodyYouKnow, on 06/26/2008, -0/+2That's an interesting history of religion. Where did you get your facts for that? Or is that what you perceive happened?
As a Christian, I "perceive" that throughout history, God has been trying to reconcile sinful man back to himself, but sinful man has ignored his call altogether, man has used God's name to fulfill their wickedness towards other men (holy wars), and tried desperately to concoct ways to explain away our existence and our inherent belief in God in spite of a massive lack of evidence for their cases.
- Spuy767, on 06/26/2008, -2/+2Originally, religion was about control. Those in power recognized that being able to explain the inexplicable through myths and legends while also gaining a means with which to threaten their subjects into submission without actually threatening them would give them power immeasurable. In the last couple hundred years, religion has become a means for those uncomfortable, or incapable of coming to terms with their own mortality a means of denying it. This is why they defend their god whoever he/she may be, so vehemently, because to tel a believer that his or her god doesn't exist is to tell them that their life means nothing in the end. That sense of inescapable meaninglessness is very powerful.
- Iztikeit, on 06/26/2008, -0/+3Obama is barely Christian.....It's a charade. And even if it isn't it's amazing that Obama lovers seem to hate religion so much around Digg.
- Spuy767, on 06/26/2008, -0/+3But they wil cling ike deer ticks to anyone who says anything positive about Obama, Christian, Muslim, or Pastafarian.
- MalenfantX, on 06/26/2008, -2/+0Do you understand that religion is a scam, and that smart freedom-loving people are right to dislike its influence on American politics?
It seems like you might be superstitious yourself, and imagine hate in people who see the world more clearly than you do.- Iztikeit, on 06/26/2008, -0/+0I'm not religious. Where did such an assumption come from? I'm just stating the obvious.
"It seems like you might be superstitious"
What did I say that lead you to believe such a thing? Obama is the Christian, not me.
I see the world more clearly than you, because I don't make assumptions.
- Iztikeit, on 06/26/2008, -0/+0I'm not religious. Where did such an assumption come from? I'm just stating the obvious.
- robbielaney, on 06/26/2008, -0/+4How can you be a Christian and support some of the things he supports? This is a serious question. Do you not have a problem with the whole abortion, homosexual marriage stance of the Democratic party? (not that I am pro-Republican party because I am not) I especially wonder about those people that compromise their morals because of a Union affiliation. How weak. Comments???
- Krisgi, on 06/25/2008, -19/+49We fear Islamic Fundamentalism and the overwhelming influence that religion has on the ignorant masses in the countries under its power.
Say "US" and "Christianity", and, in the majority of cases, it´s the same scary scenario.
Still, the idea that Obama is winning support from religious sectors who naturally should be against him and his views makes me think that many Christian leaders in the US are intelligent, consequential people with coherent criteria who direct themselves to followers who are as well.
I do not agree that religion should play such a determinant role in US politics. We are a secular nation, and personal belief should be just that: personal.
However, I must admit that these pastors have pleasantly surprised me and, if anything, increased my respect for people who are capable of weaving a fine strong cloth between what they believe and what they think.
This really gives me hope for us as a Nation. Thank you very much and have a great day.- nextyoyoma, on 06/26/2008, -2/+4try not to sound so surprised at the notion that not all religious people are total idiots.
- Fordi, on 06/26/2008, -4/+5It's... difficult.
- nextyoyoma, on 06/27/2008, -0/+1only if you are a closed-minded prick.
- Fordi, on 06/26/2008, -4/+5It's... difficult.
- b0b157, on 06/26/2008, -1/+5If you are surprised that there are Christians who are intelligent, then I suggest you start getting to know some for yourself instead of basing your judgment of Christians and their leaders on stereotypes.
And what's this about weaving a strong cloth between what they believe and what they think? Shouldn't what we believe and what we think be one and the same?- Krisgi, on 06/26/2008, -3/+5Unfortunately, what people believe usually overrides their capacity to reason. In fact, true Faith is non-rational in definition.
A good example: The Bible says that God created the World in seven days. It´s not logical or reasonable... but a lot of people believe it, apparently.
No offense, but the Religious Right in the US does not have much of a reputation for attracting the sharpest tools in the shed.
And I don´t have to "try" and not be anything. I simply AM surprised by the fact that some Christian sectors are supporting Obama.
Thanks and have a nice god.
- Krisgi, on 06/26/2008, -3/+5Unfortunately, what people believe usually overrides their capacity to reason. In fact, true Faith is non-rational in definition.
- nekroskoma, on 06/26/2008, -0/+2want to be a secular nation, as its stands the US is not very secular right now
- ryanpoleary, on 06/26/2008, -0/+3Not a secular nation.
- nextyoyoma, on 06/26/2008, -2/+4try not to sound so surprised at the notion that not all religious people are total idiots.
- rebotfc, on 06/25/2008, -15/+39I read the rebuttal word for word, it is great to see an argument made with pure facts. I wonder if Dobson actually listened to Obama's speach, as it was one of the best on Faith , Religon and Politics for decades.
Good job on the site, dugg. - zephyear, on 06/25/2008, -16/+33dobson is just another zealot looking for attention
- oldgal, on 06/26/2008, -2/+6and power and money
- MacBigot, on 06/25/2008, -10/+18Thank you, Pastor Caldwell, for vividly illustrating The Pew Forum's recent findings about what passes for Christianity in America:
http://digg.com/arts_culture/SURVEY_92_U_S_Believe ...- ssn697, on 06/27/2008, -0/+1Yes, his quoting scripture must really bother you.
- whataboutdave, on 06/25/2008, -6/+79Remember this day, boys and girls.
The Obama campaign was the only way that a pro-religion story could get to the front page.- MacBigot, on 06/25/2008, -11/+6It'll never make it.
- computerusr, on 06/26/2008, -3/+12Fail
- ObamaWins08, on 06/25/2008, -1/+30Pro-Obama Petition vs. Digg atheists and agnostics.
Digg asplode. - Mothh, on 06/25/2008, -6/+20I don't think anybody here is necessarily anti-religion. If anything we are anti-right-wing-my-version-of-god-is-the-only-god-you-should-believe-in. Oh, and anti-scientology. 'Cause that's just stupid.
- Spudster, on 06/26/2008, -7/+10Add theism to that list. 'Cause that's just stupid too. What could be crazier than thinking an invisible man in the sky created everything?
- Wakkyweed, on 06/26/2008, -10/+8Wrong! I'm actively anti-religion. I am of the opinion that the human race will never mature if it continues to cling to outmoded and contradictory beliefs. There may be a god, but as far as I can tell he has nothing in common with the mass lunacy that calls itself religion on this planet.
- vinod1978, on 06/26/2008, -5/+6I'm not anti-God, as I do believe there has to be some being greater then ourselves, however I am anti-religion. People use religion when they can't explain things by scientific facts (that was actually how religion was "invented"), so using religion in Politics is just ludicrous. I'm not voting for Obama because of Faith. I'm voting for Obama because I KNOW, that he will get us out of Iraq, he will help investment of renewable resources, he will give people a chance to buy health care, he will take better care of our veterans, and he will not unnecessary wars. Facts vs. Faith.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=DXJClPXk8Qg - IglooBurner, on 06/26/2008, -6/+6@wakkyweed
"I am of the opinion that the human race will never mature if it continues to cling to outmoded and contradictory beliefs"
Religious people are not a subset of that pool.
However if you choose to categorize the belief of a God as an "outmoded and contradictory belief" the past 5000 years just proved you wrong.- Andrwmorph, on 06/26/2008, -0/+2The past 5000 years haven't exactly been years of world peace and prosperity.
- Wakkyweed, on 06/26/2008, -0/+1Igloo, go back and READ my post before making assumptions. When I mentioned "outmoded and contradictory beliefs" I was referring to religion, not god.
God is not the problem, religion is.
- nextyoyoma, on 06/26/2008, -0/+3really? how long have you been on digg?
- noprtyaff, on 06/26/2008, -10/+2The media created multiracial leftist cult object and empty vessel Obama offered a fruitcake interpretation of the Constitution by saying that what one believes in must be reduced to a lowest common denominator or, something that everyone believes in order to be compatible with democracy and globalism.
Dobson simply called him on it.
Have a nice day.- SpinningHead, on 06/26/2008, -2/+7Wow, you're basically defending Dobson by quoting him. Brilliant. See, its that kind of thoughtless parroting that gives Christians a bad name. I wonder if Jesus would prefer the guy who gave a up a lucrative law career to help organize poor communities or the guy who started a lucrative media empire in the name of a guy who served poor communities 2000yrs ago.
- noprtyaff, on 06/26/2008, -6/+1Leftists are always so concerned about the well-being of others. Seriously. I believe many leftists are well intentioned when it comes to helping other people. However, leftists do not understand that works alone will not get them into heaven. One truly has to have a heart for God.
BTW...It's amazing what passes for "Christian" these days. And spare me the: "judge not lest ye be judged". Anyone with the heart to accept God's word knows that is just a leftist justification for one's own moral relativism. Hey, if it feels good it must be right!
Thanks for your comments. - SpinningHead, on 06/26/2008, -4/+2"Hey, if it feels good it must be right! " You mean the way some of us accept people's right to believe even if they're judgmental fundamentalists or the way it feels good to believe you follow the one true religion and you are among the few getting into heaven?
"Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting "Jesus Christ," so that it would read "A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination."
-Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography, in reference to the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom - sealhands, on 06/26/2008, -0/+7"However, leftists do not understand that works alone will not get them into heaven."
i for one - a "leftist" - do not believe in or care about heaven. if noprtyff is in heaven ill thankfully go to hell. - Andrwmorph, on 06/26/2008, -0/+3I don't give a ***** about getting into heaven. Why? Because it doesn't exist. Heaven and hell are imaginary places created to scare the ignorant masses into joining the cult of religion.
- noprtyaff, on 06/26/2008, -6/+1Leftists are always so concerned about the well-being of others. Seriously. I believe many leftists are well intentioned when it comes to helping other people. However, leftists do not understand that works alone will not get them into heaven. One truly has to have a heart for God.
- SpinningHead, on 06/26/2008, -2/+7Wow, you're basically defending Dobson by quoting him. Brilliant. See, its that kind of thoughtless parroting that gives Christians a bad name. I wonder if Jesus would prefer the guy who gave a up a lucrative law career to help organize poor communities or the guy who started a lucrative media empire in the name of a guy who served poor communities 2000yrs ago.
- MacBigot, on 06/25/2008, -11/+6It'll never make it.
- PolishLogic, on 06/25/2008, -16/+5Yet another reason to dislike him.
- floridiot2, on 06/25/2008, -2/+2polish logic lol
- Spudster, on 06/26/2008, -2/+1First it was flipping on Marijuana decriminalization. Then it was the death penalty.
I have honestly lost all the reasons I supported Obama. I supported his campaign even when his healthcare plan was weaker than Clinton's because he was better than Clinton on those two issues. Since now that isn't the case, I am stuck wondering why I ever supported this man policy wise at all.
Please, before I regain my political apathy, please tell me a modern day policy position where Obama is now better than Clinton. I need to get my hope back.- vinod1978, on 06/26/2008, -0/+2@Spudster - FYI - Clinton's health care plan doesn't work. It's already in place in some states like Massachusetts. You know what happened? People were force to buy it, and when they didn't they were fined. They didn't buy it because they couldn't afford it, and they were fined so they were in worse shape then before. So then they passed a new law making exceptions to the rule. How is that Universal Healthcare? The biggest problem in Health Care is not forcing people to buy it but to make it cheaper for the people that want it.
Back when she was the 1st Lady she had a chance to solve this issue, and instead of engaging in an open discussion with companies, and Americans - she closed to the door. Not just to regular Americans, but republicans and democrats what WANTED a seat to discuss the issue. She failed, and if she was president she would fail again. Just because you have a "plan", doesn't mean it would pass congress, and her plan had no chance in hell of every getting out of congress.- Spudster, on 06/26/2008, -1/+1All Obama does is provide coverage to children. It does absolutely nothing to address the lack of coverage.
Until every person is insured, then universal healthcare doesn't exist. I'm gonna be quit frank with you and say that I think Obama's attack on Clinton over healthcare doesn't hold any weight. The government will mandate coverage, but it's going to implement it in a way that reasonable and affordable to all Americans. I can't see the horror stories you described really happening or being worse than the situation right now.
- Spudster, on 06/26/2008, -1/+1All Obama does is provide coverage to children. It does absolutely nothing to address the lack of coverage.
- vinod1978, on 06/26/2008, -0/+2@Spudster - FYI - Clinton's health care plan doesn't work. It's already in place in some states like Massachusetts. You know what happened? People were force to buy it, and when they didn't they were fined. They didn't buy it because they couldn't afford it, and they were fined so they were in worse shape then before. So then they passed a new law making exceptions to the rule. How is that Universal Healthcare? The biggest problem in Health Care is not forcing people to buy it but to make it cheaper for the people that want it.
- IglooBurner, on 06/26/2008, -0/+1I hope atheists are smarter than this... lol
- artriue, on 06/26/2008, -0/+0Believe me, they aren't...
- GhostyBoy, on 06/25/2008, -24/+12So some of the fairy tale believers are arguing with other fairy tale believers?
Spoiler: Your both wrong.- OffPiste, on 06/25/2008, -0/+5you're your
- scy1192, on 06/26/2008, -2/+7or you can stop being arrogant and realize that this article is not about whether Christianity is true or not.
- SethEllis, on 06/25/2008, -11/+18"Which passages of Scripture should guide our public policy? Should we go with Leviticus, which suggests slavery is ok and that eating shellfish is abomination? How about Deuteronomy, which suggests stoning your child if he strays from the faith? Or should we just stick to the Sermon on the Mount - a passage that is so radical that it's doubtful that our own Defense Department would survive its application?"
- vinod1978, on 06/26/2008, -1/+3Is there a passage that we can use to get rid of someone that has too much power and is making all the wrong decisions?
Oh yeah - The Constitution. Guess we forget about that. - digitronix, on 06/26/2008, -2/+2Yeah, the Constitution is too radical. Who would have ever thought that the Federal Government shouldn't be able to throw massive amounts of money at every social program imaginable?
/sarcasm- vinod1978, on 06/26/2008, -1/+3@digitronix - Would you rather have your money spent on an unnecessary war, and tax cuts for the top 11% of Americans? I wouldn't. I would rather have cheaper college eduction for my children, tax cuts for those who need it most (the poor & the middle class), credit reform, and I also kind of like it when my tax dollars go to a child in need of vaccines instead of going directly to Haliburton.
- Iztikeit, on 06/26/2008, -3/+0Cheaper education for your children how? More taxes? LOL Dear God get over it.
- digitronix, on 06/26/2008, -0/+1Read the constitution sometime, in particular, Article 1 Section 8. The Congress does not have the constitutional power to do any of what you just mentioned.
So you pretty much don't believe there should be a constitution. I'm not going to argue with you, you can believe what you want.
- vinod1978, on 06/26/2008, -1/+3@digitronix - Would you rather have your money spent on an unnecessary war, and tax cuts for the top 11% of Americans? I wouldn't. I would rather have cheaper college eduction for my children, tax cuts for those who need it most (the poor & the middle class), credit reform, and I also kind of like it when my tax dollars go to a child in need of vaccines instead of going directly to Haliburton.
- vinod1978, on 06/26/2008, -1/+3Is there a passage that we can use to get rid of someone that has too much power and is making all the wrong decisions?
- OffPiste, on 06/25/2008, -24/+2Well there's another reason not to vote for Obama. If christians are for Obama count me out.
WWTFSMVF?- busybenj, on 06/25/2008, -3/+5DOUCHE
- VgRasta, on 06/26/2008, -1/+3TURD SANDWICH
- Mothh, on 06/25/2008, -3/+5R-amen.
- PamalaLauren, on 06/26/2008, -1/+3What a stupid ass reason. People like you shouldn't vote anyhow. It's people like you that got Bush re-elected.
- vinod1978, on 06/26/2008, -0/+2@OffPiste - Please stay home, and never come out.
- OffPiste, on 06/26/2008, -2/+1But I'm already doing that.
- busybenj, on 06/25/2008, -3/+5DOUCHE
- screamthenrun, on 06/25/2008, -9/+28I love how every article that has to do with religion that ever comes up on digg completely bashes Christians [whether it be the article or the comment threads]... except of course if the article has to do with a beloved politician on digg such as Obama.
Just my observation... take it for what you will, but it's about time that digg stops using a double standard towards Christianity. You shouldn't completely bash on Christianity one day and then embrace it the next because you suddenly remember that Obama is a Christian and that some Christian leaders support him.- itsthebrod, on 06/26/2008, -9/+17Don't worry, I'm doing my part to make sure Christianity is bashed in this topic as well. I'm all for equality.
- Spudster, on 06/26/2008, -1/+6Amen.
- chispito, on 06/26/2008, -5/+2I think topic: Elect Obama is a little bigger on the groupthink radar around here than topic: Rationalize my own lack of morals.
- MalenfantX, on 06/26/2008, -0/+0You sound like someone who can't think outside their religious delusions. Understanding that the supernatural isn't real has nothing to do with morals at all.
- toowired77, on 06/26/2008, -5/+6Go feed widows and orphans. Go feed the poor if you are a Christian. Christianity does not need you to defend it. Get rid of Apologetics and focus on helping real people. God does not stand behind political power or your dollars.
- skinturtle, on 06/26/2008, -1/+2AMEN!
- vinod1978, on 06/26/2008, -6/+2@screamthenrun - Religion doesn't kill people - people kill people.
Religion just makes people stupid. - scbelle, on 06/26/2008, -1/+1I don't think it's necessarily a double standard. It is very easy to fall into a rut bashing the brand of Christianity that usually makes news (I'm having flashbacks of gay Teletubbies and Nola getting what it deserved for hosting a gay-pride parade). There are those Christians, though, who do not subscribe to such infantile or fatalist views, and who are quite reasonable. The brand of Christianity that Obama represents is one of social justice and action-- NOT one of armchair judgment. And it is a view that can include people of all backgrounds of faith, including those with no faith. The people of faith will be living out their beliefs, but those without those shared beliefs will simply be working toward a better society-- one that makes sound environmental policies, constructing a stronger population through better economic policies, working toward equality for all.
- ssn697, on 06/27/2008, -1/+1So a Digg article pointing to a Pastors website, that quotes SCRIPTURE to make his point about uniting instead of dividing is bashing Christianity?
Are you saying only Dobson is allowed to say what is or is not acceptable? Now quoting the bible is bashing?
- itsthebrod, on 06/26/2008, -9/+17Don't worry, I'm doing my part to make sure Christianity is bashed in this topic as well. I'm all for equality.
- computerusr, on 06/26/2008, -20/+5Barack HUSSEIN Obama
- SoopaflySAM, on 06/26/2008, -2/+6So his middle name is Hussein. So??? His middle name could be Hitler for all I care.
- harrisbradley, on 06/26/2008, -4/+2I don't believe you. I bet if his middle name were Hitler you wouldn't vote for him solely based on that reason.
- vinod1978, on 06/26/2008, -0/+2Why not?
- SoopaflySAM, on 06/26/2008, -0/+1Why don't you speak human? [first name, last name]
- harrisbradley, on 06/26/2008, -4/+2I don't believe you. I bet if his middle name were Hitler you wouldn't vote for him solely based on that reason.
- computerusr, on 06/26/2008, -12/+1So it means he's Muslim NEWB.
- charm803, on 06/26/2008, -1/+11A name doesn't make you muslim anymore than standing in your garage makes you a car.
You are an idiot.
And a newb.- Ebonsteel, on 06/26/2008, -0/+8"A name doesn't make you muslim anymore than standing in your garage makes you a car."
Brilliant, Charm. I LOL'd! :) - Wakkyweed, on 06/26/2008, -0/+6Ouchies! That was a burn, Charm! I'm going to hack the digg database so I can digg you up 50 more times.
- Ebonsteel, on 06/26/2008, -0/+8"A name doesn't make you muslim anymore than standing in your garage makes you a car."
- vinod1978, on 06/26/2008, -0/+2@computerusr - Just to through a fact or 2 to you - Not ALL Arabs are Muslim, but they all have Arabic names. In fact many people in Syria or Lebanon have similar names but are actually Christians. Without knowing them would you immediately attack them? And you call yourself Christian?
God is Angry with you. Repent!
- charm803, on 06/26/2008, -1/+11A name doesn't make you muslim anymore than standing in your garage makes you a car.
- cadmiumpaint, on 06/26/2008, -0/+9its one of the most common names in the arab speaking world.
its like someone being named Smith.
you're an uneducated idiot. - vinod1978, on 06/26/2008, -1/+2computer MORON usr
- look I can do it too!
- SoopaflySAM, on 06/26/2008, -2/+6So his middle name is Hussein. So??? His middle name could be Hitler for all I care.
- mrzeero, on 06/26/2008, -12/+2I can't believe superstition plays a role in anything anymore.
Senator Obama, when you break a mirror do you get 5 years bad luck or 7?
Well, 7 of course.
You are my kind of guy. You are definitely getting my vote!- Hetman, on 06/26/2008, -0/+2Do you know why we believe that if you break a mirror you get 7 years bad luck?
- vinod1978, on 06/26/2008, -0/+2tell us.
- Hetman, on 06/26/2008, -0/+2Mirrors are expensive. When only rich people could afford mirrors and had servants. They had to come up with justification not to break them. And they are expensive does not make a good argument.
- vinod1978, on 06/26/2008, -0/+1That sounds like ***** to me.I heard it had to with that the Romans thought our spirits got trapped in mirrors, and our soul changed every seven years or something - some garbage like that...
- Hetman, on 06/26/2008, -0/+2Do you know why we believe that if you break a mirror you get 7 years bad luck?
- thirdeyeopen, on 06/26/2008, -8/+8Awesome! Right on, I hope millions sign it. I almost wish I was religious so I could sign it..... no.... no I don't, but rad none the less.
- kayvman78, on 06/26/2008, -22/+17***** James Dobson. He reads a 2000 year old story and he's telly US what morality is. Go stick your head back up in your ass Dobson.
- Yage2006, on 06/26/2008, -14/+4Faith is believing what you know is not true.
- unhuh, on 06/26/2008, -0/+0Actually, faith is believing what you HOPE to be true, but don't have enough facts to prove.
- Omega037, on 06/26/2008, -2/+3I would imagine that every candidate gets some religious support. With McCain being very strong on pro-life and Obama being very strong on pro-choice, it is obvious to see where much of the official religious community will fall during this election. However, with the economy hurting, most people, even religious, are more likely to vote their pocketbook instead of their religion. In other words, I doubt it will matter as much either way.
Also, with the great "Gay Marriage" debate coming towards an end, people are likely disheartened as well. Statistically, the religious right has known for a long time that gay marriage was eventually going to become fully accepted, but now that it actually has, the community has lost one of its three pillar issues(Stem Cells, Abortion, Gays). If they are smart, they will generate a "gays in the military" argument to generate more fervor before the election.- toowired77, on 06/26/2008, -0/+2I think women were having abortions in the ancient world. How come Jesus did not lobby Pontius Pilate to enact a law to make abortion illegal? I assume that there was a way to reach the rich and powerful in the Roman Empire. How come John the Baptist did not go to Rome to ask Caesar to enact laws that were more just? I think Jesus came to speak about the Kingdom of God which lives in your heart, not the Kingdom of Bush. Christ lived at the height of the Roman Empire, but made no attempt to change their laws. I wonder why? We need real Christianity, not your slave holding Imperialistic religion. God is just.
- Iztikeit, on 06/26/2008, -0/+1GET PILOT TO RELEASE THE FILES!
- robdoar, on 06/27/2008, -0/+0"I would imagine that every candidate gets some religious support"
Very true, I am a strong Christian, and I don't like abortion... but I don't like war either, and yet in recent elections, it's as if I am forced to choose between the two.
If McCain had any value on life, he would not be making statements about being in Iraq for 100 years, or it not mattering when the troops come home.
BTW, Dobson has blasted McCain far more than Obama, but IMHO, he has no right spouting off his political opinions on a radio show intended to help families.
- toowired77, on 06/26/2008, -0/+2I think women were having abortions in the ancient world. How come Jesus did not lobby Pontius Pilate to enact a law to make abortion illegal? I assume that there was a way to reach the rich and powerful in the Roman Empire. How come John the Baptist did not go to Rome to ask Caesar to enact laws that were more just? I think Jesus came to speak about the Kingdom of God which lives in your heart, not the Kingdom of Bush. Christ lived at the height of the Roman Empire, but made no attempt to change their laws. I wonder why? We need real Christianity, not your slave holding Imperialistic religion. God is just.
- JayG25, on 06/26/2008, -2/+8Not to downplay the message but Kirbyjon Caldwell is a Name it and Claim it preacher, and he is just as bad as Dr.Dobson.
As a Christian I wish they would stay out of this and let the people figure it out. I personally don't think that Obama is a "mainline" Christian but I am OK with his beliefs, as I would be if he were a Muslim or a Jew.- runCMD, on 06/26/2008, -1/+3Hey JayG25 - not to get off the subject - but as you stated you are a Christian - and you're OK with Obama's beliefs - how can you reconcile his stance on abortion with your own Christian beliefs ?
- ostracize, on 06/26/2008, -1/+1I think Obama will draw a lot of religious support in spite of his pro-choice stance. Obama speaks their language. The importance of family. The importance of fathers. Racial equality. Targeting the rich for stealing from the poor.
- runCMD, on 06/26/2008, -0/+1Thanks for the response ostracize ... and I I believe you are right.
I guess your first sentence reminds me of something I've forgotten. "religious support" doesn't equate to sound christian principle.
And this is an election for a politician - and not about who you choose to worship/or not. For as many people who choose to vote on their deeply held principles .... as many vote from emotion. And that will make for a very interesting race.
- runCMD, on 06/26/2008, -0/+1Thanks for the response ostracize ... and I I believe you are right.
- JayG25, on 06/26/2008, -1/+2I didn't say I support his beliefs, I just said that having preachers fight with each other over his beliefs is bad politics.
- ostracize, on 06/26/2008, -1/+1I think Obama will draw a lot of religious support in spite of his pro-choice stance. Obama speaks their language. The importance of family. The importance of fathers. Racial equality. Targeting the rich for stealing from the poor.
- runCMD, on 06/26/2008, -1/+3Hey JayG25 - not to get off the subject - but as you stated you are a Christian - and you're OK with Obama's beliefs - how can you reconcile his stance on abortion with your own Christian beliefs ?
- PamalaLauren, on 06/26/2008, -2/+3I think it just shows that there are many beliefs in regards to religion and one guy doesn't speak for everyone in the religion. Frankly religion should play no role in the government at all in my opinion. I have my moral beliefs, but they are mine and only mine, and I'm not about to impose them on others. I'll follow my beliefs, and others will follow theirs. Making laws based on religious tenants and laws is just wrong. People need to separate themselves from their religion and look at how they'd want to be treated. What if one day someone came in and told them they were making laws against them? Oh wait that's why they are so damn freaked out over a potential Muslim. Don't want someone to put Muslim laws on the books but hey no problem with those Christian ones. Makes tons of sense.
- chispito, on 06/26/2008, -1/+7Dr. Dobson doesn't speak for a lot of Christians, and he definitely does not have the influence he once did. The thing is, even if he were at the height of his power, he doesn't like McCain either.
That he doesn't want people to vote for McCain is a far bigger deal than that he doesn't want them to vote for Obama. - stubear, on 06/26/2008, -2/+14Has everyone forgotten Article VI?
"The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the members of the several state legislatures, and all executive and judicial officers, both of the United States and of the several states, shall be bound by oath or affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States."
Which part of "...but no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States." are these people having trouble understanding?- Hetman, on 06/26/2008, -2/+6America does not care about the constitution anymore. It is sad but true. There are constant attacks on the 4th and 2nd amendment. The politicians have been very good at making people believe that democracy=freedom. But in reality they are two different things.
- spriggig, on 06/26/2008, -0/+3America DOES care about the Constitution. The politicians we elect know we're too complacent to notice when they ***** on it for their own ends. Pay attention!
- vinod1978, on 06/26/2008, -0/+2@Hetman - couldn't have said it better myself.
- Hetman, on 06/26/2008, -0/+1You know I wish you were right. But I do not think so. Most people I talk to about politics never bring up the constitution.
- cadmiumpaint, on 06/26/2008, -2/+4if you compare the platform that the base rallies behind, the Republican party is Anti Constitutional and Anti American in almost every way.
- Hetman, on 06/26/2008, -1/+3Agreed. But Obama not trying to stop the telecom companies from getting immunity is also horrible. I am sorry I cannot vote for the lesser of two evils anymore.
- cadmiumpaint, on 06/26/2008, -0/+2this election is about more important things than the telecom industry. I wish i lived in a country where that was the biggest concern for me.
you have to look at the really big issues like the war, the economy, healthcare, our international standing to decide who you want to be your leader. not just some small issue. - relentless1914, on 06/26/2008, -0/+2How does this attitude differ from the abortion or gay marriage litmus tests that many of the religious right champion?
- cadmiumpaint, on 06/26/2008, -0/+2this election is about more important things than the telecom industry. I wish i lived in a country where that was the biggest concern for me.
- Iztikeit, on 06/26/2008, -0/+1The Democrats are just as bad, and worse in some cases, concerning this issue.
- Hetman, on 06/26/2008, -1/+3Agreed. But Obama not trying to stop the telecom companies from getting immunity is also horrible. I am sorry I cannot vote for the lesser of two evils anymore.
- Brian48216, on 06/26/2008, -0/+3technically this passes under Article VI.
In no way is any candidate REQUIRED to undergo a religious test as a qualification. In theory, if you had a candidate that was epically awesome enough, they can run and win any office without having to answer to any religious group.
Let's not forget that the constitution does not govern the actions of private people. It merely sets boundaries for the federal government.
If anything, the Christian leaders, both douchebag and non douchebag are exercising their 1st Amendment rights.
Obama doesn't HAVE to deal with the religious groups, but it definitely helps. - toowired77, on 06/26/2008, -1/+1Its so sad to see whats happening in some of these churches. They need to feel like God is real so they feel good when they think they are doing his bidding in the courts. They support Israel so that they can go to 'Holy Land" game parks and this makes the Bible feel real for them. Getting involved in Middle East politics allows them to feel like they have been invited to God's country club. This has nothing to do with morality and everything to do with a sad notion that they are pleasing God by joining the republican party. They need our prayers and compassion.
- blakeg, on 06/26/2008, -0/+2How is Article VI relevant here? It applies to the government, and the government has no religious test. Voters can use whatever criteria they want when making their selection, including religious tests.
Which part of Article VI are you having trouble understanding?- stubear, on 06/26/2008, -1/+0That's not entirely true. Too many people extrapolate the intro to the First Amendment and think it applies to EVERYTHING. Private corporations can't search your bags in violation of the Fourth Amendment nor can they stifle your First Amendment rights on a whim. They can play a lot faster and looser with your rights but it's not clear and cut where and when your rights can be asserted. That's where the judiciary branch steps in. So, it's possible, though no one has formally challenged this, that Article VI DOES indeed apply, it's just not going to sit well with the religious nut bags who think we need a theocracy run by their favorite evangelical minister.
- Hetman, on 06/26/2008, -2/+6America does not care about the constitution anymore. It is sad but true. There are constant attacks on the 4th and 2nd amendment. The politicians have been very good at making people believe that democracy=freedom. But in reality they are two different things.
- HonestAbe, on 06/26/2008, -4/+6This is exactly why he needs to become president. No more of this political hijacking of Christianity and using it to promote warfare and hatred.
- soupzilla, on 06/26/2008, -6/+7What ever happened to that whole separation of church and state thing?
- betweenthebars, on 06/26/2008, -2/+3So you're saying that no one with religious beliefs should be allowed to run for office?
- TechMike, on 06/26/2008, -2/+2You mean the provision that says the Government can't prohibit the free exercise of religion? This country was founded by Christians with active faith and remains unique in the world. No other country founded on any other faith has managed to be as consistently free and successful. IMHO, no candidate who does understand authentic Christian faith can effectively lead this nation.
Like him or not, Dobson speaks from a mature understanding of Christianity.- Pigeon, on 06/26/2008, -0/+2May have been founded BY Christians... but is not founded ON the Christian faith. Many of the 'founding fathers' took a dim view to Christianity anyway.
"Christianity neither is, nor ever was, a part of the Common Law."
- Thomas Jefferson
"In the affairs of the world, men are saved, not by faith, but by the lack of it."
- Benjamin Franklin
". . . Thirteen governments [of the original states] thus founded on the natural authority of the people alone, without a pretence of miracle or mystery, and which are destined to spread over the northern part of that whole quarter of the globe, are a great point gained in favor of the rights of mankind."
- John Adams
- Pigeon, on 06/26/2008, -0/+2May have been founded BY Christians... but is not founded ON the Christian faith. Many of the 'founding fathers' took a dim view to Christianity anyway.
- b0b157, on 06/26/2008, -0/+0You obviously have no idea what the separation of church and state clause is all about, since you are saying that religious people should shut up and not have their say in the government.
- FreeTalkLIve, on 06/26/2008, -8/+6End times are all coming together as planned.
2012, Antichrist, mark of the beast, one world government
This is going to be sweet man.
/It's futile to change the devine plan of God.- Hetman, on 06/26/2008, -4/+9Then why pray to him?
- runCMD, on 06/26/2008, -0/+3may not be too far off there FreeTalkLive. Interesting revelation ... : )
- skinturtle, on 06/26/2008, -1/+3"This is going to be sweet man."
Problem is..the bible says you shouldn't be so eager for the day of the Lord to arrive.
Amos 5:18-20
18 - Woe to you who long for the day of the LORD! Why do you long for the day of the LORD ? That day will be darkness, not light.
19 - It will be as though a man fled from a lion only to meet a bear,as though he entered his house and rested his hand on the wall only to have a snake bite him.
20 - Will not the day of the LORD be darkness, not light—pitch-dark, without a ray of brightness?- Iztikeit, on 06/26/2008, -0/+0Nice context.
- robbielaney, on 06/26/2008, -0/+1Why 2012?
- guidogallopyn, on 06/26/2008, -1/+1dugg down for stupidity
- robbielaney, on 06/26/2008, -0/+1Besides . . . the AntiChrist will be of either Jewish or Roman heritage (depending on how you interpret the Bible). You think Obama is the AntiChrist? That would not line up with the Bible, but hey . . . you can just tear those pages out if you like.
- LeeSoong, on 06/26/2008, -3/+4Dr. James Dobson
Mr. "Focus on the Republican Neocon Agenda"
- he stopped being a real spiritual leader long before the beginning of the Clinton of the administration.
He use to care about people.
He use to care about families,
but now it's all politics - trash radio.- runCMD, on 06/26/2008, -3/+1Wow LeeSoong - you've got a bit of hate brewing in that text. I disagree with your perception on Dr Dobson - as do many who support his organization. He cares deeply for the spiritual life of the family and especially the health and welfare of children.
- MalenfantX, on 06/26/2008, -0/+1Keep in mind that spirits aren't real, and maybe you'll start to understand what Dobson is really about.
- runCMD, on 06/26/2008, -0/+1All a matter of perception.
- LeeSoong, on 06/28/2008, -0/+1And all a perception of matter?
Hmm would that make Antimatter eViL ?!?
I can't listen to Dob's Son - every time he's on the radio he's blathering on and on about some sort of politics...
What ever happened to the no politics from the pulpit ?
and no hate bro, no hate - I'm just tellin' ya what I hear him saying on the radio - politics, politics, politics. Nothin' about family or spiritual matters.
But he still has the right to worship the false gods of government - Thank the Goddess !
May She Bless the USA 1st Amendment!
- MalenfantX, on 06/26/2008, -0/+1Keep in mind that spirits aren't real, and maybe you'll start to understand what Dobson is really about.
- runCMD, on 06/26/2008, -3/+1Wow LeeSoong - you've got a bit of hate brewing in that text. I disagree with your perception on Dr Dobson - as do many who support his organization. He cares deeply for the spiritual life of the family and especially the health and welfare of children.
- AsylumAleikum, on 06/26/2008, -15/+2True Christian leaders would not speak out for a closet Muslim.
- leighhalliday, on 06/26/2008, -1/+3Not this again... Obama has even go so far to explicitly state that he is not Muslim:
http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/fightthesme ...
http://my.barackobama.com/page/invite/christian
Please learn the facts. - highlymodified, on 06/26/2008, -0/+3I'm trying to decide if you're trolling or seriously reading the 15 posts-per-hour xdcc gets up...
In the event you're serious, I have to ask you how being a "closet" religion works, especially when being raised and regularly attending in a different religion altogether.
Hillary, McCain, and every GOP douche on the planet went through Obama's past with a fine-tooth-comb, and the most they could find is angry ***** his (Christian) priest said. If he actually was a Muslim, trust me, Hillary would have pushed that from day 1.
But you don't want to hear that, do you? You'd rather harbor some sick fantasy that if a genuine smart, likable black dude is running for president, there has to be some fatal flaw? - IglooBurner, on 06/26/2008, -0/+3True Christians would embrace Muslim as brothers and sisters, and a true Muslim would do likewise.
- betweenthebars, on 06/26/2008, -0/+2You've got the right idea.
- toowired77, on 06/26/2008, -0/+1It is a grave sin for a Muslim to pretend not to be a Muslim. What kind of Muslim is a man who states over and over again that he is not one. Proclamation of faith is what makes one a Muslim.
You remind of me of the kids who resort to name calling when they lose an argument. If you don't have anything else to say about the man other than this stupid Manchurian candidate conspiracy theory, than the man is doing a great job. - vinod1978, on 06/26/2008, -0/+1@AsylumAleikum - I know EVEN you don't believe it, but let's say he was a Muslim. So what? Are you saying that all Muslims are terrorists? If you are, what message does that say to 30% of the Earth? Do you even know how many countries have a Islamic population of 30% or more? Since you obviously have a hard time understanding the facts, I'll help you out:
Afghanistan, Albania, Algeria, Angola, Azerbaijan, Bahrain, Bosnia, Chad, Egypt, Ethiopia, Gambia, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Israel, Jordan, Kazakhstan, Kenya, Kyrgyzstan, Lebanon, Liberia, Libya, Malaysia, Maldives, Mali, Mauritania, Mayotte, Morocco, Mozambique, Niger, Nigeria, Oman, Pakistan, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, Sierra Leone, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Tajikistan, Turkey, Uganda, and Yemen.
- leighhalliday, on 06/26/2008, -1/+3Not this again... Obama has even go so far to explicitly state that he is not Muslim:
- knumbknuts, on 06/26/2008, -3/+8I don't care if it's Constantine and his Army, Mexican Catholics hanging from telegraph posts in the '20s, Protestants and Catholics killing each other in Ireland, or Obama blowing sunshine...
politics are even worse for Christianity than Christianity is for politics.
Obama, let it go. You're not Muslim. Now tell me how you are going to balance the budget. That's why I voted for Clinton and he almost made it worth it. - Denithor, on 06/26/2008, -9/+5Who gives a *****? Seriously?
- btschul, on 06/26/2008, -6/+6So, let me get this straight. During arguments, all the Obama supporters pointed to the fact that Ron Paul is a baptist and say that he is religious and should not be president (Quote from one of my many debates with obama sheep "he's a religious extremist doctor that doesn't believe in evolution"), but the fact that obama is a christian is ok? Sounds like blind fanboyism to me.
- Hetman, on 06/26/2008, -2/+4What? Ron Paul is a libertarian. His policies are completely different than Obama's. Why do you assume that digg is the Borg? It is not a hive mind even though sometimes there are fads. AKA "Dont taze me bro comment"
- JoeVet, on 06/26/2008, -6/+5The difference is Paul would use the office of president to advance his extremist Christian social agenda while Obama has stated he is committed to a secular government. Obama has never introduced a bill to deprive the American public of its right to defend themselves in court from religious persecution. Paul has introduced such a bill multiple times.
- zacharytelschow, on 06/26/2008, -0/+1So... Paul would use the office of president to advance his extremist Christian social agenda, while Obama would use the office of the president to advance hist extreme secular socialist agenda. None of the above, thank you.
- toowired77, on 06/26/2008, -3/+2Is the Ron Paul that wants to reverse the 1964 Civil right bill? To the back of the bus we go.
- btschul, on 06/26/2008, -0/+1no
- toowired77, on 06/26/2008, -1/+0Oh no, this is the doctor who doesn't read a newsletter sent out in his name. A doctor who doesn't read, nice.
- btschul, on 06/26/2008, -0/+1no
- vinod1978, on 06/26/2008, -1/+2@btschul - Some people are obviously going to play to whatever suits them at the time, but by and large most Obama supporters don't really give a flying rats ass about what religion any candidate is. We just want some money in our pockets again, our families & our money out of Iraq, our Constitution restored, and some help with the environment - everything else takes a very far, far, far backseat.
- btschul, on 06/26/2008, -0/+3It's funny you just described Ron Paul, not Obama. Obama supports a bill to take money out of your pocket and give to poor people in OTHER COUNTRIES. http://digg.com/2008_us_elections/Obama_supports_b ...
Looks like you are voting for the wrong person.
- btschul, on 06/26/2008, -0/+3It's funny you just described Ron Paul, not Obama. Obama supports a bill to take money out of your pocket and give to poor people in OTHER COUNTRIES. http://digg.com/2008_us_elections/Obama_supports_b ...
- vinod1978, on 06/26/2008, -3/+10Can we please get religion out of our politics once and for all?
- betweenthebars, on 06/26/2008, -0/+6That depends on your definition of religion, and is honestly unrealistic. You don't want religion in politics because of what will supposedly cost you in terms of freedom, etc, but by asking that, you're removing the very right you're trying to protect.
- vinod1978, on 06/26/2008, -1/+1@betweenthebars - "You don't want religion in politics because of what will supposedly cost you in terms of freedom, etc, "
No. I don't want religion in politics, because it leads to decisions that costs us Americans lives, money, and our civil freedoms. Religion has no place in politics because even though we are all citizens of the United States we don't believe in the same religion. How can you govern an entire country based on religious beliefs when the very citizens that you govern have different religious beliefs then you? You can't. Our founding fathers knew this and that is why put it in the 1st Amendment of the Constitution.
Ahhhhh...the Constitution - now that's MY Bible.- betweenthebars, on 06/26/2008, -0/+2That's a very naive way of looking at it.
How do you separate religious beliefs from personal beliefs?
A president is voted in based upon how people perceive them, and how their beliefs line up with the candidate's (allegedly). If eighty percent of America votes for a "religious" candidate because his/her beliefs match their beliefs, should that candidate be given the Presidency, or should we disregard eighty percent of America because you don't want a religious President? - vinod1978, on 06/26/2008, -0/+1@betweenthebars - There is a big difference between personal beliefs that you consider moral or immoral, and following something because an organization says you must. We all have our own morals, however you can not legislative morality because it is subjective. For example, let us consider abortion. There are many reasons to have one - such as rape, incest, medical concerns, etc...however that belief is different for every person. Every woman should evaluate her own morals when making such a decision, however many want to pass a new law (or overturn a court case), in order to prevent any woman from making this decision herself because they perceive this to be an act against God.
Abortion is just one issue, but there are many others. Take for example, Florida where the abstinence-only sex education program failed students so bad they believe that drinking bleach prevents HIV, and drinking Mountain Dew prevents AIDS (http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/04/abstinence-edu ... Why is there an abstinence-only sex education program? Because people think it is an act against God.
Get God out of government and put Him back in the Church where he belongs.
- betweenthebars, on 06/26/2008, -0/+2That's a very naive way of looking at it.
- Overgrown, on 06/26/2008, -0/+0George Washington Loved Jesus Christ and was a devout follower.
www.wallbuilders.com
This is part of his farewell adress to the nation that was well received from Wiki -
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Washington%27s_Farew ...
Obvoiusly (from your statement) you have no concept of freedom. This country whether you were taught this truth or not (doesnt matter anymore because truth us truth) was founded by Christians and interwove Christian beliefs into our Constitution. If you dont know what freedom is, read some OTHER countries constitution.
If you dont like our constitution, GO LIVE IN ANOTHER COUNTRY.- betweenthebars, on 06/27/2008, -0/+1I never said a word about our constitution. I'm saying that attempting to prevent a religious person from running for office would make your beliefs contradictory. You want freedom to do what you want and believe what you want, right? What type of freedom only applies to certain people whose beliefs meet certain criteria? Freedom shouldn't be selective, it should be universal.
I actually read what you linked, and you missed the entire point. Christianity was not mentioned in that entire address (never mind the fact that Christianity, Islam, and Judaism all share the same basic beliefs, so this "Religion" that Washington is referring to could be any of those). In the specific paragraph that you mentioned, I see that religion and politics are discussed. First, I must ask you one quick question. Do you even know what religion actually means? A person's religion is their values/beliefs/practices. Now that you know what that word actually means, why don't you go ahead and re-read Washington's Address:
"27 Of all the dispositions and habits, which lead to political prosperity, ["good" values, beliefs, practices] and Morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of Patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of Men and Citizens. The mere Politician, equally with the pious man, ought to respect and to cherish them. A volume could not trace all their connexions with private and public felicity. Let it simply be asked, Where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of obligations of ["good" values, beliefs, practices] desert the oaths, which are the instruments of investigation in Courts of Justice? And let us with caution indulge the supposition, that morality can be maintained without ["good" values, beliefs, practices]. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect, that national morality can prevail in exclusion of ["good" values, beliefs, practices] principles."(see note)
I'm all for freedom, love, and peace, but you idiots who claim to know everything (but actually have no damn clue what you're talking about) get on my last nerve. I'm sick of all the prejudice bigots. I'm guessing that "Overgrown" is a firm believer in "I hate Christians and they shouldn't have the rights to do the same things as me....ism." There are psychopaths on both ends, it just seems that no one can remember that.
Note: I replaced the word "religion" with the meaning of the word in every instance in this paragraph. Aside from this switching of words and the necessary reorganization of sentences (for grammatical reasons), this paragraph has not been edited in any way.
- betweenthebars, on 06/27/2008, -0/+1I never said a word about our constitution. I'm saying that attempting to prevent a religious person from running for office would make your beliefs contradictory. You want freedom to do what you want and believe what you want, right? What type of freedom only applies to certain people whose beliefs meet certain criteria? Freedom shouldn't be selective, it should be universal.
- vinod1978, on 06/26/2008, -1/+1@betweenthebars - "You don't want religion in politics because of what will supposedly cost you in terms of freedom, etc, "
- betweenthebars, on 06/26/2008, -0/+6That depends on your definition of religion, and is honestly unrealistic. You don't want religion in politics because of what will supposedly cost you in terms of freedom, etc, but by asking that, you're removing the very right you're trying to protect.
- Nemesisesq, on 06/26/2008, -5/+5Obama is the second comming didn't you get your button?
- MalenfantX, on 06/26/2008, -0/+1That's what the right-wing crazies keep claiming others believe. Silly right-wing crazies.
- Red05, on 06/26/2008, -2/+14Believe it or not, there are Christians on Digg. Crazy, I know.
- amightywind, on 06/26/2008, -11/+3Obama has a messiah complex.
- JointVenture, on 06/26/2008, -4/+3Liberals on Digg praising priest?
The day digg became BIZZARODIGG.com
The world is definitely ending soon. - pingsmoth, on 06/26/2008, -9/+9Actually, Dobson *does* speak for me, and I hope his comments are heard even more. Obama is using his cardboard-thin Christian faith as a badge on his sleeve designed to attract wavering voters. Dobson is calling him out on it. Three cheers, Dobson.
- MrGadget777, on 06/26/2008, -1/+1Thanks for NOT being scared about sharing your support for Dobson :)
- rebotfc, on 06/26/2008, -1/+1So respond to the websites quotes with fact...
Oh but you can't because you're full of *****. - zmjone2992, on 06/26/2008, -1/+1Hi there douchebag!
- Iztikeit, on 06/26/2008, -0/+0Yup, Obama has a pretty paper thin Christian faith. Calling Jesus radical is one thing. Being an open hypocrite is another.
- Willtheway, on 06/26/2008, -5/+5Considering what Obama said, these people are probably not real christians. Just more phonies who claim to represent Christians.
And besides, it is wrong for a church leader to publicly endorse a candidate.- robbielaney, on 06/26/2008, -0/+2Where does it say that it is wrong for a church leader to publicly endorse a candidate?
- zacharytelschow, on 06/26/2008, -0/+1"Considering what Obama said, these people are probably not real Christians."
Obama has openly stated that there are many paths to the same end, while the Bible states that Christ is the only way. He doesn't believe in Christ but others aren't Christians?
http://foxforum.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/06/02/barac ... - gwayo, on 06/30/2008, -0/+1The guy isn't necessarily endorsing Obama. He's merely saying that Dobson doesn't speak for all Christians, and in that he's 100% correct.
- runCMD, on 06/26/2008, -8/+3Interesting to see so many religious leaders so easily leave their own christian principles behind to see this man get elected. This is gearing up to be one revelatory race for the most powerful office in the land. My advice is to stick with what you believe ... Don't be led astray by people chasing power.
- spriggig, on 06/26/2008, -0/+6I've noticed that people have stopped voicing "I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to my death your right to say it." What happened to the idea that we can disagree without becoming evil to each other? And, in support of that, what happened to the ability to admit a mistake when overwhelming evidence makes your mistake undeniable? Admitting a mistake is to show weakness? Loyalty above all else? That's the ***** that had Nazis marching across Europe, remember that?
- compcarp, on 06/26/2008, -4/+2And he is...
Seriously, those of you who hate Dobson for speaking out, should at least be consistent and rip this pastor for speaking out too... Or is it that he agrees with you...
In this situation, I know and generally agree with Dobson. But this guy can have his say too. I just find it funny that he's complaining about Dobson who is just exercising the same right to free speech. Mind you, Dobson and his group PAY taxes... does this pastor? And does that affect any Digger's opinion?
I thought not.- gwayo, on 06/30/2008, -0/+1This comparison doesn't work. Dobson has long claimed to be the voice for American Christians; this other guy is pretty much an unknown. He went from being a respected child psychologist to leaving FoF to pursue politics, and has long claimed the role of conservative Christian right icon. He wants to stay in the spotlight in spite of saying that he would sit out this election when none of the candidates were to his liking. The sense of entitlement and history of making a great deal of noise cannot be compared to a pastor merely speaking out to say that Dobson does not, in fact, speak for all Christians. And that is all.
- VinnieDaMac, on 06/26/2008, -2/+3Religion shouldn't even be an issue....
- MalenfantX, on 06/26/2008, -0/+0Unless the candidate is so religious they can't handle reality at all. For example being a young earth creationist would indicate that someone is too religious to handle the real world.
- betweenthebars, on 06/26/2008, -0/+17I'm sick of all of this bashing. Christian, Muslim, Athiest, Buddhist... We're all people. Where's the respect and love?
- Fallout911, on 06/26/2008, -7/+6I honestly don't give 3 ***** about these religious debates or "camps" they can all go ***** themselves.
- transform100, on 06/26/2008, -0/+7I know people that think he's the antichrist... I think this a bunch of bull and I'm a christian, I hate people that judge without facts.
- zacharytelschow, on 06/26/2008, -0/+1..and what about those that judge a man's character based on facts?
http://savagepolitics.com/?page_id=326
- zacharytelschow, on 06/26/2008, -0/+1..and what about those that judge a man's character based on facts?
- MrGadget777, on 06/26/2008, -5/+0How you some of you can base your opinions on reading ONE web page is sad.
I bet the majority of people posting haven't even read both sides in full - me included. Who is this pastor? What are his underlying motivations and beliefs?
I've been a big supporter of James Dobson's family work in the past and not a huge fan of Obama, but I will still read both sides before giving my two cents. - DirtySanch, on 06/26/2008, -0/+4"When someone comes to the point of saying Jesus is the devil or Jesus is 'expletive', the Bible does say be very careful because you're on thin ice." Ha, what is this the 3rd grade?
- zmjone2992, on 06/26/2008, -0/+1wrong story there buddy
- Mechanicat, on 06/26/2008, -2/+4I applaud you Christian leaders who are speaking out for Obama.
- rlh1, on 06/26/2008, -3/+4Man, this is just plain weird.
Digg supporting Christians and digging down any anti-religious statements.
Something is terribly wrong here......... - Jib3, on 06/26/2008, -3/+1Barack Obama is a deeply troubled personality, the megalomaniac front man for a postmodern coup by the intelligence agencies, using fake polls, mobs of swarming adolescents, super-rich contributors, and orchestrated media hysteria to short-circuit normal politics and seize power.
Obama comes from the orbit of the Ford Foundation, and has never won public office in a contested election. His guru and controller is Zbigniew Brzezinski, the deranged revanchist and Russia-hater who dominated the catastrophic Carter presidency 30 years ago. All indications are that Brzezinski recruited Obama at Columbia University a quarter century ago. Trilateral Commission co-founder Brzezinski wants a global showdown with Russia and China far more dangerous for the United States than the Bush-Cheney Iraq adventure.
Obama's economics are pure Skull & Bones/Chicago school austerity and sacrifice for American working families, all designed to bail out the bankrupt Wall Street elitist financiers who own Obama. Obama's lemming legions and Kool-Aid cult candidacy hearken back to Italy in 1919-1922, and raise the question of postmodern fascism in the United States today. Obama is a recipe for a world tragedy. For more information and sourcing, check this out: http://www.bravenewbookstore.com/product_info.php? ...- gwayo, on 06/30/2008, -0/+1Eh...just who is pure Skull & Bones Brotherhood? Would that not be the Bushes?
- bjmoose, on 06/26/2008, -0/+3"All You Need Is Love... da da dadada. All You Need Is Love... da da dadada. All You Need Is Love, Love. Love Is All You Need."
Separation of church and state? Well, the church is a separate building, that's about as separated as it gets- zacharytelschow, on 06/26/2008, -1/+1Separation of church and state as preached by the liberal media is a fairy tale.
There is no official doctrine of "separation of church and state." The original phrasing came up during a letter from Thomas Jefferson to baptists, assuring them that the state would never influence the church but making no mention of the church influencing the state (which is something the founding fathers intended as a basic tenet of government).
http://www.usconstitution.net/jeffwall.html
- zacharytelschow, on 06/26/2008, -1/+1Separation of church and state as preached by the liberal media is a fairy tale.
- scarysnow, on 06/26/2008, -1/+1Oh please. Your religion does the dividing. Not Mr. Dobson.
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